VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times - Page 8

VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

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Thread: VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

  1. #106
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    So, still no attorney making this a class action suit?


  2. #107
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    Here in Georgia reporters of any kind are prohibited by state statute from obtaining access to our CCW records. Only LE can have access to it and only for a legit reason.
    GeorgiaCarry.Org Member
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  3. #108
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    New article in the Roanoke times

    I have highlighted the sections that we should pay particular attention to.

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/108899

    Officials to consider closing records on gun permits

    The panel is expected to form a work group to examine whether the General Assembly should restrict public access to concealed handgun information.
    By Laurence Hammack

    A state senator who heads an open records council is calling for a study of whether the identities of Virginians who have permits to carry concealed handguns should remain public.

    Sen. Edd Houck, a Spotsylvania County Democrat who chairs the state's Freedom of Information Council, made the request in the wake of controversy generated by The Roanoke Times.

    Earlier this week, the newspaper published and then pulled from its Web site a database containing the names and addresses of about 135,000 state residents who have obtained court permission to carry concealed handguns.

    Although the information is public record, hundreds of readers and permit holders have complained that making the data so easily accessible on the Internet invaded their privacy and could make them targets of crime.

    House Majority Leader Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, who is the vice chairman of the FOI council, said other people -- himself included -- who don't carry concealed handguns could also be put at risk.

    "Maybe I need to be on that list," Griffith said. "I'm such a strong gun advocate that I thought I was safe because people just assumed that I had one. Now they know that I don't."


    The council is expected to form a work group when it meets Monday in Richmond. After researching the issue and holding public hearings, the group will make recommendations that could lead next year's General Assembly to restrict or eliminate access to concealed handgun information.

    "We're going to try to make sure that we protect folks," Griffith said.

    One proposal is that Virginia follow the lead of Vermont, the only state that does not require its residents to obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun. "There are people advocating that," Griffith said, adding that he was not sure how far that idea might go.

    The issue hit a flash point Sunday, when the database was posted on roanoke.com to supplement an opinion piece about open government by editorial writer Christian Trejbal.

    As angry reaction flooded the newspaper's phone lines and Web site, president and publisher Debbie Meade announced Monday that the database was being taken down out of concerns that Virginia State Police, who released the information at the paper's request, might have included the names of crime victims in violation of state law.
    The next day, state police said that was not the case. In fact, the state Freedom of Information Advisory Council issued an opinion in 2001 that found police are within their legal rights to release such data.

    But the information remains off line as the debate continues.

    Houck said he decided to ask for the study after citizens called his office to complain about the newspaper. While it was not a great number of calls, "the intensity was pretty strong," he said.
    "This is one of those classic issues where you've got personal privacy rights bumping up against the public's right to know."
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #109
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    House Majority Leader Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, who is the vice chairman of the FOI council, said other people -- himself included -- who don't carry concealed handguns could also be put at risk.

    "Maybe I need to be on that list," Griffith said. "I'm such a strong gun advocate that I thought I was safe because people just assumed that I had one. Now they know that I don't."

    Wow. He admits to not having a gun? Well good for him to realize he needs one!

    "We're going to try to make sure that we protect folks," Griffith said.

    This is one statement to remember when feet need to be held to the fire.

    My latest letter to the editor:

    I was glad to see that the Roanoke Times took down the gun permit database, out of a concern for safety and caution. But then I learned that a guard was hired for Mr. Trejbal's home.

    Exactly who's safety was important in making this decision? Mr. Trejbal, or the countless thousands of Virginians affected by the article?

    I've been waiting for my armed guard to show up. You have my address.

    xxxx xxxx
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  5. #110
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Paramedic,

    Griffith admitted to not having a concealed handgun permit, not to not not having a gun.

    In VA one does not have to have a CHP in order to own or even carry a pistol.
    A CHP is only useful for those who wish to carry concealed in speicif as open carry is legal, albeit frowned on. As well having a CHP allows a VA resident to purchase more than one firearm in a given month as per a law change dating back to the early 90's under then governor Wilder.

    Griffith may actually own a gun(s) but choose to not carry concealed or have not had need to purchase more than one firearm in a a given months time.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #111
    Senior Member Array incredipete's Avatar
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    I was always under the impression that Freedom of Information was about allowing the CITIZENS to monitor the GOVERNMENT, not to allow CITIZENS to monitor other CITIZENS! This is a complete and total outrage, and I hope that the class action lawsuit (whenever it happens) puts the Times out of business for good.
    Gun Control means never having to say "I missed you."

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  7. #112
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Question: Does anyone have a list of the Roanoke-Times advertisers?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  8. #113
    Member Array Desk Jockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Question: Does anyone have a list of the Roanoke-Times advertisers?
    There are several lists in this thread on THR. I'd suggest going directly to the last couple of pages.

  9. #114
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    In a news item posted by the Fredericksburg Lance-Star ...

    Highlights:
    • A committee is being appointed to "study" the issue of public disclosure and the limits to access to such data on concealed-carry citizens.
    • The chairman of the committee believes that concealed-carry records made public are no different than other licenses ... like doctors. Doctors? Why not pea-gravel salesmen?
    • While the FOIA group won't meet until June, there's no indication of when or where this newly-empowered committee will be meeting. Heck, they should publish that information on simple moral grounds. No Brownie points to the winning guess as to why no mention was made of this.


    Basically, if you want any action, particularly if you want the right action, this fight isn't hardly over.

    According to the VCDL, both the Fredericksburg Free-Lance and the King George Journal Press are both continuing to publish this data, though I have yet to find that fact on either of these two web sites. (Interesting names for these two bastions of freedom, eh??)


    Should concealed-gun information be public?
    State to consider access to concealed weapon permits.

    BY CHELYEN DAVIS

    RICHMOND -- A state committee will study whether concealed weapon permit information should remain public record after a Roanoke newspaper ignited controversy by posting on the Internet a list of permit holders.

    The Virginia Freedom of Information Advisory Committee yesterday decided to appoint a subcommittee to investigate the issue over the next few months.

    The controversy started just last week when the Roanoke Times published, on its Web site, a list of all concealed-weapon permit holders in the state.

    The list came from the state police, which is required by law to maintain that list, but the information is also subject to the Freedom of Information Act and is public record.

    After numerous furious e-mails and phone calls from the public, the Roanoke Times took the list off its Web site. But Sen. Edd Houck, D-Spotsylvania County, said he was already getting calls and e-mails, particularly from other state legislators, who want to consider changing the law.

    "There's a clash here between personal, private information and the public's right to know," Houck said after the FOIA council meeting yesterday. "It's a hot topic right now and a lot of people are very anxious about it. It's opened up all types of other issues."

    Few people came to speak at the council's meeting yesterday, although Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, spoke and said he has requested an opinion from the attorney general on the issue.

    Jim Kadison of the Virginia Citizens Defense League--a gun-rights organization--said his group is concerned about "possible abuse" of the list. He suggested creating a list of permit-holders for police and then a separate, public one that permit holders could opt off of.

    Houck, who chairs the council, said he will also chair the subcommittee that will study this issue. He is worried that the issue may open the door to those who would like to see Virginia eliminate its permit requirement for a concealed weapon altogether, and said he wants to keep the focus on the public information issue.

    However, Houck said, he also thinks consistency is important, and he pointed out that the rules governing the openness of concealed carry permits is no different than the rules governing other state permits--like doctor's licenses.

    The Free Lance-Star periodically publishes the names of Fredericksburg area permit holders when the permits are issued.

    The entire FOIA council will meet again in June.

    Chelyen Davis: 804/782-9362
    Email: cdavis@freelancestar.com
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 20th, 2007 at 09:07 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  10. #115
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    I personally believe that the only hope for getting this information private (except for legitimate law-enforcement purposes) anywhere is to hold legislators feet to the fire until they pass laws making it so. No committee is going to give up a portion of its purview voluntarily...that is not in the nature of bureaucracies.

  11. #116
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    VCDL Update - CNN Story

    From Philip VanCleave
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I just got off the phone with Kyung Lah with CNN.

    She is doing a story on how gun owners were affected by the Roanoke
    Times publishing a database of concealed handgun permit holders on
    RT's web site last week.

    She wants to interview somebody who was strongly affected by that event.

    Obviously, those of you who are under death threats probably would
    not want to appear on nationwide television.

    However, if anybody is angry about what RT did and feels their lives
    were changed or harmed by it, here is your chance to let other
    Americans realize the gravity of what the Roanoke Times did.

    Just send me a quick email with your name / city / phone / why the
    publishing of that database caused you angst and I will forward on to
    CNN.

    --
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  12. #117
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    The Easiest Personal Fix

    This reply is geared toward those CCW licensees who live in the areas where others have said additional newspapers are still continuing to publish the data.

    We had a similar situation here in FL from a similar brainiac TV news reporter who published CCW listings on their TV station's website. Thankfully, the degree of public outrage in this gun-lover's state was sufficient enough that our Legislature promptly and properly reacted, to the effect that disclsosure of CCW licensee's personal data is now illegal and exempt from FOIL requests.

    If you are a CCW licensee named on a published list, send a certified mail, return receipt requested letter to the publisher. Specifically object to inclusion of your name and state as many reasons as you can think of why you object. Specifically include home burglary targeting and theft of your guns in your absence as one of those reasons. Specifically inform that you will consider failure to delete your name from the list as cause-origin, contributory negligence and contributory complicity in any crimes you may suffer and sustain.

    What you have done is place them on formal notice of a legitimate concern. Your receipt is proof they received it. Their failure to comply is prima facie evidence that they considred but rejected and refused to comply with your request. They have no defense of "lack of prior notice or awareness" and, if culpable at all, their culpability is doubled by virtue of their refusal of your own individual, specific demand and request. A jury would see it that way. And anyone with a brain would realize a jury will see it that way.

    If nothing else, if enough people write such letters, it could be shown and broadcast that the newspaper ignores and denies specific requests from a large portion of their cunsumer public readers, and that will help their advertiser revenues shrink appreciably when readers complain about that to the newspaper and its advertisors. Absent advertising revenue, most mass media generators have little choice but to cave in or fold up.

    Squeaky wheels get greased. Squeak LOUD, and squeak incessant. They'll get the message. If they don't, and bad comes of it, you'll have more effective fuel and basis upon which to sue their a**es.

    Maybe start a grass-roots fundraiser, hire fee counsel, and class-action sue their a** anyway, just to get the message across. If any industry closely monitors freedom of speech, free press and FOIL issues, TV News stations and newspapers sure as heck do. If a Plaintiff's Verdict is obtained in a class-action lawsuit, the whole industry will be buzzing about it by the next day. No doubt soon followed by remediation of the problem, statewide, even if voluntarily and not via state legislation. It's like anything else. Problem-makers need be sufficiently deterred from continuance.

    We resolved the problem in FL expeditiously. Any other state can do the same. All it takes is enough voices, squeaking and barking loudly enough at the right people in the right places. "God Bless America".
    Last edited by RTC1911; March 23rd, 2007 at 03:55 PM.

  13. #118
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    One additional item, the Roanoke Times VIOLATED their own privacy policy:

    Here's a good laugh. From the Roanoke Times' Privacy Policy page:

    "We will not disclose any personal information without your advance
    permission except when we believe the law requires us to do so or the
    disclosure is necessary to protect the rights or property of Times-World
    Corp."
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  14. #119
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    Has the Times fired the reporter yet??
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy View Post
    Has the Times fired the reporter yet??

    Nope.....he just wrote an article complaining about his inability to purchase a pre-made cloths line pole......so he can save to planet from global warming by drying his laundry outdoors, instead of using an evil assault dryer........
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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