VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

This is a discussion on VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What you all need to know is that Christiansburg police have had to be deployed to this reporters house on a 24hr basis. He cant ...

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  1. #121
    Member Array Ping Ping's Avatar
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    What you all need to know is that Christiansburg police have had to be deployed to this reporters house on a 24hr basis. He cant go anywhere. He cant do anything. There will likely be action taken against him for reckless endangerment... He basically told every bad guy in VA where to go to steal a gun.

    The populace in VA, VERY gun friendly... is not real happy with this doofus.
    "Happiness, is a warm gun" -St. John of Liverpool

    Proud to be an infidel.

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  3. #122
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The populace in VA, VERY gun friendly... is not real happy with this doofus.
    That says a lot about Virginians, on the whole. Nice to know a doofus is a doofus, even in VA.

    Sadly, this incident will be seen as nothing more than: (a) proof of the insanity of firearms owners; (b) proof of the lengths to which armed people will go when they feel threatened, however irrational it is to make such a gross generalization; and (c) proof that the anti-gun fire needs more fuel, if it's to succeed.

    Brace yourselves. It's time to go on the offensive in order to ensure that freedoms are not completely overwhelmed by the callous and evil stupidity shown by this man, his newspaper and their kind.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #123
    Member Array ducati's Avatar
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    I have no respect for the Times. As a former Law Enforcemet Officer for the City of Roanoke, 10 plus years. I was looking at an article a couple of years later and seen my name in the paper. It listed that I had left the department and listed what state I had moved too. This paper is very liberal.

  5. #124
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    That says a lot about Virginians, on the whole. Nice to know a doofus is a doofus, even in VA.
    Of course, the thing is, this guy is not even a Virginian! I have a very high opinion of Virginia and Virginians, having spent time around Yorktown and Norfolk while on reserve duty. I wonder if the Yorktown Pub still makes those great soft-shell crab po-boys . . . oops, I digress.

    I hope the pressue is kept up on the newspaper, it's advertisers, and on the legislature to take action on protecting the privacy of law-abiding citizens.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  6. #125
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    Of course, the thing is, this guy is not even a Virginian!
    I know that, but I'm trying to forget. The cretin (Trejbal) is from Oregon.

    BTW, the "Virginians" comment was paying a compliment to the sanity and integrity of Virginians (as a whole) to see this clod for what he is: dangerous.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #126
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    Hopefully everyone will stay after the local PD to file charges on him for filing a false bomb threat. It seems that he opened the box from DHL before he called in the possible bomb in the box.

    Methinks he did it to make gun owners and in particular permit holders look bad. I sincerely hope that he is prosecuted for this to the fullest extent of VA law.

    I also hope that the RT fires him, but that seems unlikely at this point.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  8. #127
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    That says a lot about Virginians, on the whole. Nice to know a doofus is a doofus, even in VA.

    Sadly, this incident will be seen as nothing more than: (a) proof of the insanity of firearms owners; (b) proof of the lengths to which armed people will go when they feel threatened, however irrational it is to make such a gross generalization; and (c) proof that the anti-gun fire needs more fuel, if it's to succeed.

    Brace yourselves. It's time to go on the offensive in order to ensure that freedoms are not completely overwhelmed by the callous and evil stupidity shown by this man, his newspaper and their kind.
    Proof of Insanity?...Not so! Even liberal CNN picked this one up finally. Interviewing Virginians that are now in danger due to this doofus. Check out the latest VA-Alert from VCDL http://www2.vcdl.org/webapps/vcdl/va...?RECID=1397314:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    VCDL's Gun Dealer Legal Defense Fund -- help fight Mayor Bloomberg's
    scheme to cripple Virginia firearms dealers. See: www.vcdl.org/index.html#DefenseFund
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    To unsubscribe or change your email address, please follow the
    directions at the end of this message.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I was interviewed about the recent Roanoke Times debacle by Kyung Lah
    of CNN on Friday at Vinney's Italian Restaurant in Midlothian. The
    restaurant was very hospitable, setting us up in a large corner so
    that all the camera equipment could be spread out.

    The interview went very well and was done professionally. Ms. Lah
    asked some of the questions that were posed by Mr. Trejbal in his
    article - such as, "Don't I have a right to know if you are carrying
    a gun?"

    I had been standing up talking to Ms. Lah for couple of minutes after
    I arrived. She looked at me and said, "Since you have a concealed
    handgun permit, aren't you allowed to transport a handgun?"

    I said, "Yes."

    She said, "Er, do you have one in the car then?"

    I said, "No, but I have one on my hip."

    A little embarrassed for not having noticed, she then looked down and
    saw that I was open carrying.

    I explained Virginia Law to her about having to open carry in
    restaurants that have a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages
    for on-premises consumption.

    THE ROANOKE TIMES AND CHRISTIAN TREJBAL ARE HYPOCRITES!

    This is TOO good! I asked Ms. Lah if someone was going to interview
    the Roanoke Times management and Christian Trejbal (the columnist who
    wrote the story about Virginia 'sunshine' laws, and who obtained and
    helped publish the CHP holder list).

    Ms. Lah said that BOTH Mr. Trejbal AND the Roanoke Times Management
    are REFUSING TO BE INTERVIEWED!!!!!!!!

    What about all that 'sunshine,' you were celebrating Mr. Trejbal?
    What about it Roanoke Times? Surely you would want to lead the way
    by letting a little light shine on the damage that you did by
    publishing the CHP holder list?

    I got a real chuckle when she told me about their refusal.

    I guess I have been doing this too long as I wasn't surprised. I
    have dealt with people like Mr. Trejbal many times before.

    ANOTHER VCDL MEMBER TO BE INTERVIEWED

    Ms. Lah is also going to interview a parole officer who had THREE
    parolees show up at his residence, one while only his wife and child
    were at home! All three admitted to getting his address from the
    list published on the Internet by the Roanoke Times.

    THANKS TO THOSE OF YOU WHO VOLUNTEER THEIR STORIES

    Thanks to those who volunteered to be interviewed. I shared your
    stories with Ms. Lah and some of your emails will probably be used in
    the story. Ms. Lah assured me that your name and other private or
    identifying information will be redacted when emails are shown on
    screen. Only the part of the email that talks about how your life
    has been endangered will be highlighted and visible to make the point.

    WATCH THE PAULA ZAHN SHOW ON MONDAY AT 8 PM!

    The story is going to air THIS Monday at 8 PM EST on the Paula Zahn
    show on CNN.

    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. (VCDL).
    VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization dedicated to
    defending the human rights of all Virginians. The membership considers the
    Right to Keep and Bear Arms to be an essential human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
    ************************************************** *************************
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #128
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Proof of Insanity?...Not so! Even liberal CNN picked this one up finally.
    re "insanity," I meant the bomb "scare" with Trejbal, which simply serves to make gunnies look bad.

    Yes, it is wonderful that CNN's picking up the story. Though, I'm not hopeful they'll do it justice. If they don't put a liberal spin on it, I'll fast for a week in penance for my bad thoughts on the subject. Nobody would be happier than I to see CNN actually get this "real" story right, without the liberal biases their famous for.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #129
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    Roanoke Times apologizes......sort of.....

    http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/wb/110214

    Lessons learned in database incident. More discussion and thought should have gone into the decision to publish a database of concealed carry holders in the state.

    We heard from literally thousands of people after our decision two
    weeks ago to post an online database of people in the state permitted to carry concealed handguns. Many people presented rational objections.

    Many others responded with personal threats of violence and acts of intimidation -- responses we declined to publish.

    The difficulty we've faced since is how to respond to the rational objections without validating the abusive tactics and attacks waged
    against this newspaper and the columnist who wrote a piece linked to
    the database.

    Amid the firestorm of criticism, we've re-examined our
    decision-making process and reflected on the valid criticisms.

    We've come to some conclusions.

    First, we had a legal right to post the database. These were public
    records, legally obtained.

    In some journalistic circles, that would be enough. The Washington
    Post's Marc Fisher praised the decision to post the information and
    accused The Roanoke Times of caving in to criticism when we decided
    to pull the database.

    But upon reflection, we wish we had more fully discussed the
    potential ramifications before we made this decision. Dozens of
    concealed permit holders expressed heartfelt fear because of the
    exposure of what they believed was private information.

    We gave insufficient thought and discussion to the potential that
    crime victims, law enforcement officers and domestic violence victims
    might be put at risk if their addresses were published.

    Though many of our critics believe that the database handed burglars
    a shopping list of households with guns and abusers a list of their
    victims, no one can point to a single incident where similar
    publications led to a crime.

    But we didn't know that until after the database was published. The potential for harm is something we should have given far greater
    thought to in making the decision.

    For our failure to do so, The Roanoke Times apologizes.

    We also regret that there was not a more compelling public purpose -- beyond illustrating how the Freedom of Information Act works -- behind the decision to post the database.

    There are vital reasons these records should remain open.

    But those reasons were not well illuminated -- or even particularly
    well served -- by the publication of the entire database.

    The public should be able to monitor how well various jurisdictions
    screen concealed carry applicants.


    So, yes, we made mistakes. The process for vetting this decision was
    not as thorough as it should have been.

    Those mistakes, though, in no way justify the outrageous and
    threatening nature of much of the response. Very early on, a rational
    discussion of this issue became all but impossible.

    It was extremely important that we not allow the unacceptable antics
    of the fringe to distract us from a careful examination of our own
    decision-making.

    We want to assure our readers that, where we erred, we will strive
    not to repeat our mistakes. And we will continue to advocate
    passionately for the free flow of information that is the lifeblood
    of an open society.
    So, there is the NON-APOLOGY.............

    p.s. I wonder what the 'vital reasons these records should remain open' are?
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by goawayfarm View Post
    p.s. I wonder what the 'vital reasons these records should remain open' are?
    So the Roanoke Times can publish it again in a few years when they think the furor has died down....

  12. #131
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    Another VA newspaper tests the waters...

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/opini...,1865974.story

    What do you think?
    Should names of concealed-weapons holders be shielded?
    March 27, 2007
    There's a move underfoot to deny the public access to some information that is now open: the identity of those who have permits to carry concealed weapons.

    That information is available on request to the public, from the state police or maybe a local court, but there's no handy registry you can check online.

    Some gun-rights advocates don't think the public has a right to the information, and they have been successful in getting it secreted in other states. The latest flare-up is in Virginia, precipitated when The Roanoke Times posted on its Web site a list of the names and addresses of permit holders statewide. The controversy got so ugly that an editorial writer was threatened, and the newspaper took down the list (citing questions about accuracy). Now there's a state group looking at the issue and a push for the legislature to lock up the records.

    Should that be public information? What do you think?

    Under what circumstances would someone want to know who - among their neighbors or workmates - might be armed? Does publicizing permit holders' identity put them at risk? Does keeping it secret put the public at risk?

    Because permitting is a governmental process, should there be a presumption in favor of open government? Should information on gun permits be as available as that on other government-issued permits, like marriage and medical licenses? Does the fact that guns are involved make these government records any different, and does that argue for or against public access?

    It's now easy to find out (online) if someone has been involved in a case at a local court; should it be as easy to find out if they have been issued a concealed-carry permit by the court?

    How much information should be available (full addresses, just street names, just city or county)? In what form - an easily searchable online database, or information released by request? Should it be published in newspapers, as it is in some Virginia communities?

    Is there a right to privacy here? If there is, is it trumped by the public's right to know?

    What do you think?

    As you consider, remember this: A permit isn't required to carry a weapon. Except for a few excluded groups, such as convicted felons, and odd exceptions, anyone can carry a loaded gun just about anywhere except schools, courthouses, churches and airports.

    A permit is required only to carry a weapon that's hidden rather than in the open. And concealed-carry permits aren't hard to get. All you have to do is file an application, pay a fee, provide minimal documentation of competence with a gun and submit to a criminal history check.

    There's a list of people who can't get them; some of the conditions could be verified (like certain kinds of convictions), some a court would be hard-pressed to know about (like using marijuana). Would public scrutiny offer a check on those folks who shouldn't get permits, but got past the screening process?

    So what do you think?

    Let us know, following the instructions in the accompanying box. We'll consider readers' opinions as we prepare an editorial on the subject, and print as many as we can.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    My LTE:

    Editor,

    Yes.

    Unlike marriage and medical licenses, by definition, concealed handgun permit(CHP) holders value discretion. One need look no further than the name of the permit to see the word "concealed," defined by the VA CHP Code as, "hidden from common observation."
    If you were to publish my address as a CHP holder, could you foresee a criminal targeting my house when I am at work, or executing me before I could defend myself? Where does that leave my homemaker wife and young children?

    Being granted a CHP is an extension, albeit a constitutionally contentious one, of a human right. Citizens have elected to submit themselves to an FBI background check for the "privilege" of carrying a concealed handgun. Permit holders are unquestionably more law abiding than the average citizen. Criminals, on the other hand, are still free to carry illegally, as such is the nature of a criminal, to disobey the law.

    It serves no public interest to make CHP holder's information public. Certainly, no one would consider making public the names and addresses of public safety officers, rape / domestic violence victims, homosexuals, or judges, of which some can be assumed to have CHPs for their own protection against assault. CHP holders are taking personal responsibility for their own safety. Look around right now, do you see a police officer nearby, or have one posted outside your residence?

    Who cares if your neighbor or coworker has a CHP? What does that mean? Does it change the person? Does a piece of paper change your perception of that person? So what if you can look up someones court cases? A CHP holder is not a criminal!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  13. #132
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    "Very early on, a rational discussion of this issue became all but impossible."

    One wonders, obviously, why they didn't start a "rational discussion" before publishing the list? Talk about shooting first and asking questions later...definitely not good candidates for carry permits. So how can they hope to understand the mindset of a lawfully armed citizenry?

  14. #133
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    With the recent NY release of people's private permit information, I was wondering about Virginia's laws about release of this information. I knew that the Roanoke Times had released a list some time back but didn't know when. So I did a search, found this thread and have read it through. I was not a Virginia resident when this happened back in 2007. However, I did in the last two elections vote for Morgan Griffith. I'm glad I did. So I was wondering how all this turned out?

    Did Virginia ever pass any law making it illegal for the news media or anyone to publish a list of CHP holders such as the Roanoke Times did? What ever came out of the legislature on this issue?
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  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ping Ping View Post
    What you all need to know is that Christiansburg police have had to be deployed to this reporters house on a 24hr basis. He cant go anywhere. He cant do anything. There will likely be action taken against him for reckless endangerment... He basically told every bad guy in VA where to go to steal a gun.

    The populace in VA, VERY gun friendly... is not real happy with this doofus.
    Will the police do the same for the people listed, when the anti gunners show up at their homes? Will not many of those listed be tagged as gun nuts by their fellow employees, church members and others.

    Someone mentioned that CNN ran a story about the newspapers action, problem is, CNN is next to dead last in the viewer polls and only a small percentage of the population saw the program, too small to make a difference IMO.
    US Army 1953-1977

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