VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

This is a discussion on VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160 list location: http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/ Shedding light on concealed handguns By Christian Trejbal Christian Trejbal Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in ...

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Thread: VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

  1. #1
    Member Array General Geoff's Avatar
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    VA CCW holder list published in Roanoke Times

    http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160


    list location: http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/


    Shedding light on concealed handguns

    By Christian Trejbal
    Christian Trejbal

    Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. To mark the occasion, I want to take you on an excursion into freedom of information land. We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit.

    I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already: It's nobody's business but mine if I want to pack heat.

    Au contraire. Because the government handles the permitting, it is everyone's business.

    There are good reasons the records are open to public scrutiny. People might like to know if their neighbors carry. Parents might like to know if a member of the car pool has a pistol in the glove box. Employers might like to know if employees are bringing weapons to the office.

    And all Virginians have a stake in checking that their government is not making mistakes, for example, by issuing permits to convicted felons. Open records allow the media or any private citizen to check.

    This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house. There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too.

    But that's a debate for another time.

    To illustrate the open government process, I set out to acquire permit lists for the New River Valley.

    I first called the local circuit court clerks charged with overseeing permitting. They were helpful, as far as they could be.
    Your thoughts

    * Post to the message board
    * Agree or disagree? Take the poll

    Only Radford and Floyd County said they could produce a list. Giles County maintains an unofficial list but could not produce an official one. Montgomery and Pulaski counties had squat. The best they could do is determine if a specific individual had a permit.

    None of that conflicts with the law. The records must be available but not necessarily in the format citizens want.

    Fortunately, one of the clerks tipped me off to another avenue. The state police, she thought, maintained a master list.

    I called Richmond and found out that yes, they did have a statewide list. Bingo!

    Then another lesson of open government hit. A copy would cost more than $100.

    Any Virginian can show up at a government office and request a public document. If it is something simple such as a council agenda, officials usually gladly duplicate it, maybe charging a few cents for the photocopy.

    If it is something more complicated, government agencies may charge for the time and effort to prepare the records. In the case of concealed handgun permits, state police need to weed through them to cut out some personal data, which takes staff time.

    A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.

    I bit the bullet and placed my order, saving the paper a few bucks by taking a Jan. 18 list officials had recently prepared for someone else.

    The compact disc arrived last week. Names, addresses, issue and expiration dates.

    About 2 percent of Virginians, 135,789 of us, have concealed handgun permits. In the New River Valley, 3,826 people have them, a slightly higher rate than in the rest of the state.

    I immediately started checking some names. Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer, no permit. Pulaski County Supervisor Dean Pratt, packing. Radford University President Penelope Kyle, no permit. Giles County Supervisor Paul "Chappy" Baker, packing.

    Some of the names proved tricky. Dana Dwayne Munsey of Pembroke has a permit. Is that Mayor Munsey? Standoffish town officials wouldn't provide a middle name or address for confirmation, and the listed phone number is disconnected.

    The list sports a dismayingly large number of typos for an official registry -- four different spellings of "Christiansburg," for example.

    Local celebrities generally don't carry, but at least a half dozen elected officials do. I'll leave it to readers to figure out which ones so you can avoid annoying them at meetings.

    As a Sunshine Week gift, The Roanoke Times has placed the entire database, mistakes and all, online at www.roanoke.com/gunpermits. You can search to find out if neighbors, carpool partners, elected officials or anyone else has permission to carry a gun.

    Open government laws arose from distrust of government. They guarantee citizens can watch what government does in their names, including issuing gun permits.

    Trejbal is an editorial writer for The Roanoke Times based in the New River Valley bureau in Christiansburg.

    btw here's the editorial author's information:

    CHRISTIAN J TREJBAL Born Sep 1970
    2502 FAIRWAY DR SW
    ROANOKE, VA 24015

    e-mail address: christian.trejbal@roanoke.com

    www.Zabasearch.com

    Roanoke Times
    201 W. Campbell Ave.
    P.O. Box 2491
    Roanoke, Va. 24010-2491
    Main Switchboard: (800) 346-1234 or (540) 981 3340
    Discretion is the better part of valour; and a virtue beyond reproach.
    Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Roanoke VA newspaper just put ENTIRE CCW list online

    Shedding light on concealed handguns

    By Christian Trejbal
    Christian Trejbal

    Today is the start of Sunshine Week, the annual week in which we reflect on the importance of open government and public records. To mark the occasion, I want to take you on an excursion into freedom of information land. We're going to find out who in the New River Valley has a concealed handgun permit.

    I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already: It's nobody's business but mine if I want to pack heat.

    Au contraire. Because the government handles the permitting, it is everyone's business.

    There are good reasons the records are open to public scrutiny. People might like to know if their neighbors carry. Parents might like to know if a member of the car pool has a pistol in the glove box. Employers might like to know if employees are bringing weapons to the office.

    And all Virginians have a stake in checking that their government is not making mistakes, for example, by issuing permits to convicted felons. Open records allow the media or any private citizen to check.

    This is not about being for or against guns. There are plenty of reasons people choose to carry weapons: fear of a violent ex-lover, concern about criminals or worry that the king of England might try to get into your house. There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too.

    But that's a debate for another time.

    To illustrate the open government process, I set out to acquire permit lists for the New River Valley.

    I first called the local circuit court clerks charged with overseeing permitting. They were helpful, as far as they could be.
    Your thoughts

    * Post to the message board
    * Agree or disagree? Take the poll

    Only Radford and Floyd County said they could produce a list. Giles County maintains an unofficial list but could not produce an official one. Montgomery and Pulaski counties had squat. The best they could do is determine if a specific individual had a permit.

    None of that conflicts with the law. The records must be available but not necessarily in the format citizens want.

    Fortunately, one of the clerks tipped me off to another avenue. The state police, she thought, maintained a master list.

    I called Richmond and found out that yes, they did have a statewide list. Bingo!

    Then another lesson of open government hit. A copy would cost more than $100.

    Any Virginian can show up at a government office and request a public document. If it is something simple such as a council agenda, officials usually gladly duplicate it, maybe charging a few cents for the photocopy.

    If it is something more complicated, government agencies may charge for the time and effort to prepare the records. In the case of concealed handgun permits, state police need to weed through them to cut out some personal data, which takes staff time.

    A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.

    I bit the bullet and placed my order, saving the paper a few bucks by taking a Jan. 18 list officials had recently prepared for someone else.

    The compact disc arrived last week. Names, addresses, issue and expiration dates.

    About 2 percent of Virginians, 135,789 of us, have concealed handgun permits. In the New River Valley, 3,826 people have them, a slightly higher rate than in the rest of the state.

    I immediately started checking some names. Virginia Tech football coach Frank Beamer, no permit. Pulaski County Supervisor Dean Pratt, packing. Radford University President Penelope Kyle, no permit. Giles County Supervisor Paul "Chappy" Baker, packing.

    Some of the names proved tricky. Dana Dwayne Munsey of Pembroke has a permit. Is that Mayor Munsey? Standoffish town officials wouldn't provide a middle name or address for confirmation, and the listed phone number is disconnected.

    The list sports a dismayingly large number of typos for an official registry -- four different spellings of "Christiansburg," for example.

    Local celebrities generally don't carry, but at least a half dozen elected officials do. I'll leave it to readers to figure out which ones so you can avoid annoying them at meetings.

    As a Sunshine Week gift, The Roanoke Times has placed the entire database, mistakes and all, online at www.roanoke.com/gunpermits. You can search to find out if neighbors, carpool partners, elected officials or anyone else has permission to carry a gun.

    Open government laws arose from distrust of government. They guarantee citizens can watch what government does in their names, including issuing gun permits.

    Trejbal is an editorial writer for The Roanoke Times based in the New River Valley bureau in Christiansburg.

    http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/trejbal/wb/108160

    and the list is at:

    http://www.roanoke.com/gunpermits/
    __________________
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    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  3. #3
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    I do wonder when they publish those lists, who really reads them? And why?
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    You've got the right idea ... almost. Take any and all info you can gather on that "reporter" and take out an ad in every newspaper you can hit. If at all possible, list his name address and home phone, salary, names of family members and salary info - a work schedule would be nice too if you can get that. Let that &*%%) see how it feels to have personal, private info published in print for all to read.
    Jack

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean3 View Post
    You've got the right idea ... almost. Take any and all info you can gather on that "reporter" and take out an ad in every newspaper you can hit. If at all possible, list his name address and home phone, salary, names of family members and salary info - a work schedule would be nice too if you can get that. Let that &*%%) see how it feels to have personal, private info published in print for all to read.
    Jack
    I'll pitch in $50 for this effort. Anybody know how to find out all the 'dirt' on this clown? Like tax records, DMV tickets...etc......even a google aerial map of his house!

    Both my wife & myself are listed. I told my wife about it & boy is she PISSED! She's ready to call a lawyer to see if there is any recourse.
    Last edited by goawayfarm; March 11th, 2007 at 07:20 PM.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    I pulled up the list and put in my last name, there are 6 pages of relatives that have a permit, Way to go Family.

  7. #7
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    Now there's some wisdom for ya!
    Press the fight!

  8. #8
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    Damn, thats a privacy situation. BG's read the newspaper. Stupid reporter.
    "The best compliment to the Warrior is that others feel safe while you are around." I would add especially if they REALLY ARE safe when you are around.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    My last post didn't take Hmmmmm.
    Any way I pulled up the list and put my last name in the search box,
    Pulled up six pages of relatives. Way to go family.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    These idiots know how to aid the BG. What other excuse would this jerk have for this type of action. I guess he ran out of news worthy things to write about.

  11. #11
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Hey, If nothing else, you shoudl be able to sue both him and the paper for emotional trauma. After all he does admint, in the article, "I can hear the shocked indignation of gun-toters already: It's nobody's business but mine if I want to pack heat".

    This indicates that he is intentionally doing something that he knows is going to emotionally impact a lot of people.

  12. #12
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    Awesome. Found some LEOs home addresses on there.

    Sent them emails so they can at least know that their info is public now.

    A few of the LEOs I know got permits for reciprocity before they could carry on their police credentials. Another has a spouse with a permit.

    Good job by the reporter.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  13. #13
    Member Array p2555016zr's Avatar
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    "Local celebrities generally don't carry, but at least a half dozen elected officials do. I'll leave it to readers to figure out which ones so you can avoid annoying them at meetings."


    So he's saying that anyone who carries just up and blows people away that "annoy" them...
    Last edited by p2555016zr; March 11th, 2007 at 08:03 PM.

  14. #14
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    Here is my letter to the editor & the miscreant author:

    Apparently your writer C. Trejbal, doesn't have enough real news to keep him busy. I wish you would remedy that problem. Maybe his time would be better spent on publishing lists on CRIMINALS rather than the law-abiding. Maybe even a list of Trejbal's tax returns, parking & speeding tickets. How about the names, ages & schools his children attend.....Doesn't sound very appealing does it?

    His misguided attempt at doing a story on 'open government', by publishing the private information on over 138,000 Virginia citizens is inexcusable. This is a lame attempt at portraying holders of a Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit as people not to be trusted.

    We........yes I said "WE", I am one of those on the 'list'. I have held a valid permit for more than fifteen years in the Commonwealth. In order to be granted a permit, you have to go through a lot. Here is some of what you have to go through:

    I had to present evidence to the court of state approved training in firearms & safety. Classroom training includes when it is legal & when it is NOT legal to carry or use a concealed weapon. I had to submit an application & pay the fees involved. I had to pass local & state background checks. I was fingerprinted & a further background check was performed by the FBI. All this was before I was granted a permit to protect my family & myself.

    I am not a drug dealer, felon, stalker, thief or even a jay-walker. I'm not an illegal alien, I am a citizen of the USA & I vote. My family has fought in every major war to protect this country & it's freedoms. My son-in-law is still in Iraq. I'm well aware of the responsibility of carrying a firearm. I train regularly, probably more than most Virginia law enforcement officers. I'm aware of the laws as they apply to carrying a concealed firearm. I know when, where I can legally carry. I also know where it is illegal for me to carry.

    I don't go to 'bad' parts of town looking for trouble. I go out of way to avoid conflicts. I prefer to be anonymous, however since Mr. Trejbal's article, that isn't possible now is it? If the need arises, I will act intelligently & decisively to protect my life & the lives of those around me....even Mr. Trejbal's. (since he is not on the 'LIST')

    You work for a newspaper. How many permit holders have committed crimes?........Can't remember any?...That's because overall, permit holders are among the MOST law-abiding in this country. There are more law enforcement officers charged with crimes than Concealed Handgun Permit holders. There aren't any instances of a police officer being injured by a permit holder. On the other hand, there have been instances where policemen have been assisted by permit holders.

    Do I wish we lived in a world where there was no risk of being a victim....YOU BET! ...but that is fantasy, the world we live in is dangerous, just look through your own rag to see all the bad things that happen to good people.

    In closing, Trejbal shows that he is really anti-gun. His own words betray his bias...."There are plenty of reasons to question the wisdom of widespread gun ownership, too." That makes his true motives for publishing this information a little clearer.

    Maybe we should do as Frank Lloyd Wright said....."I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters."

    C Green
    Fork Union, Va.
    akav8er likes this.
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

  15. #15
    VIP Member
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    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

    "If you carry a gun, people will call you paranoid. If I have a gun, what do I have to be paranoid about?" -Clint Smith

    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." -Jeff Cooper

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