No Guns in Parking Lot - Unconstitutional?

No Guns in Parking Lot - Unconstitutional?

This is a discussion on No Guns in Parking Lot - Unconstitutional? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Man!! Ohio's rollin'! Restrictions Cannot Contravene the Constitution In Plona v. United Parcel Service, 2007 (U.S. District Court, N.D. Ohio), UPS fired an employee for ...

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Thread: No Guns in Parking Lot - Unconstitutional?

  1. #1
    Member Array jeffkirchner's Avatar
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    No Guns in Parking Lot - Unconstitutional?

    Man!! Ohio's rollin'!

    Restrictions Cannot Contravene the Constitution

    In Plona v. United Parcel Service, 2007 (U.S. District Court, N.D. Ohio), UPS fired an employee for having a firearm stored in his vehicle in a public-access parking lot used by UPS employees and customers. The court found that "the right to keep and bear arms" is enough to form the basis of a wrongful termination. Further, U.S. District Judge Ann Aldrich found that "allowing an employer to terminate an employee for exercising a clearly established constitutional right jeopardizes that right, even if no state action is involved."
    Last edited by jeffkirchner; March 16th, 2007 at 02:38 AM. Reason: to fix url
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    Now if we could do something about the Nineth Circut Court of Appeals we would really be in good shape.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  3. #3
    Member Array Randal16-1's Avatar
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    That's great news.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Good decision. I wonder if Plona would have been fired if he had refused to consent to a search of his car...

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Big issue

    The NRA has been heavily involved in this issue, on the side of the gun owners vs. the employers. Here is a link to their discussion of the subject:

    NRA position on guns in employee cars in company parking lots

    I have always wondered about the wisdom of an employer enacting a rule that he has no chance of enforcing. Most employee parking lots I have seen contain hundreds or thousands of employee cars, all locked, coming and going at all times of the day. How could an employer possibly search all those cars for guns on a frequent basis at reasonable cost? To even search a small percentage of the cars would require dozens or hundreds of security guards with keys to the cars, trunks, locked storage containers, etc. in each car. No employer is willing or able to do this on a large scale.

    If the employee is discreet about the gun in the car, how will it ever be detected?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pogo2 View Post
    The NRA has been heavily involved in this issue, on the side of the gun owners vs. the employers. Here is a link to their discussion of the subject:

    NRA position on guns in employee cars in company parking lots

    I have always wondered about the wisdom of an employer enacting a rule that he has no chance of enforcing. Most employee parking lots I have seen contain hundreds or thousands of employee cars, all locked, coming and going at all times of the day. How could an employer possibly search all those cars for guns on a frequent basis at reasonable cost? To even search a small percentage of the cars would require dozens or hundreds of security guards with keys to the cars, trunks, locked storage containers, etc. in each car. No employer is willing or able to do this on a large scale.

    If the employee is discreet about the gun in the car, how will it ever be detected?
    Search a lot of cars...once alerted, now the employee must face some decisions...I know they do this at our school...but not on a regular basis, and we still cannot have a weapon in a vehicle on school property. Makes no sense to me...I'm not asking to bring it into the building.

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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The court found that "the right to keep and bear arms" is enough to form the basis of a wrongful termination.
    What is it with the past several months? Has everyone gone and grown a conscience and common sense? This is a string of outcomes that we haven't seen in a generation.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    You got to like that. In MN, it is written into the law you can have weapons secured in your car. If you have a carry permit, you can unload and lock up your gun before going into a school while parked in the school parking lot or an employers parking lot is the same way.
    MNBurl

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  9. #9
    Member Array cgraham's Avatar
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    In New Mexico, your car is considered an extension of the home. Does that trump any employer demand to exclude weapons from it, or does it make the requirement invalid?

    When you are hired by a business that prohibits weapons in vehicles in the parking lot, you seemingly assent to give up a right associated with the home.

    If you were not hired because you disagreed with that requirement, would it be grounds for a discrimination suit? If an employer, through some accident of circumstance, found a weapon in your car, would termination be grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit?

    I think we need a lawyer for this one.

    C

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    This sounds like great news. A persons vehicle should be treated as an extension of his property, and it's ridiculous that an employer can subject your property to search without justification (that's called burgulary), and then fire you for possessing perfectly legal items.

    Now, employers do have the right to fire you for pretty much anything they want. But they shouldn't have the right to search your private property (in the form of your vehicle) anymore than they have the right to send someone to break into your home while you're at work. If they don't have anything to fire you for outright, why give them the ability to look for "dirt"?

  11. #11
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    I think some people may be misinterpreting this ruling. The parking lot in the ruling was "public access" and simply used by the USPS employees. It was not a private, company-owned, employee-only parking lot. As such, I am quite sure that this ruling would NOT apply to a company policy about cars that are parked in a private, company-owned lot.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
    I think some people may be misinterpreting this ruling. The parking lot in the ruling was "public access" and simply used by the USPS employees. It was not a private, company-owned, employee-only parking lot. As such, I am quite sure that this ruling would NOT apply to a company policy about cars that are parked in a private, company-owned lot.
    Maybe not, but...

    "Further, U.S. District Judge Ann Aldrich found that 'allowing an employer to terminate an employee for exercising a clearly established constitutional right jeopardizes that right, even if no state action is involved.' "

    Judge Ann Aldrich has just put a tear in my eye.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Thumbs down UPS crap

    If this parking lot did not belong to Ups how did they find out that employee had a gun in the first place? Did UPS go onto property that they didn't own to search the employee's car? I don't believe that UPS has the right to search any bodys car unless they have a warrant and LEO standing by and UPS has filed theift charges against the empolyee. I think a company gets away with a lot of this crap . They need a good sized lawsuit to straighten out their way of thinking.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array wht06rado's Avatar
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    "Further, U.S. District Judge Ann Aldrich found that 'allowing an employer to terminate an employee for exercising a clearly established constitutional right jeopardizes that right, even if no state action is involved.' "

    What a beautiful thing! With this and the D.C. Cuircut Court ruling, it seems that people that have the power to change things are finally using some common sense.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    I have never understood how property rights could trump constitutional rights so I am glad to see this ruling.

    There was a similar case that the NRA was involved in out west somewhere last year. Anybody know how that one turned out? I think several employees of a paper company were fired for having deer rifles in their vehicles in a company parking lot. This had never been an issue in all the years the company was in business. I think the company may have been Weyerhaeuser but I am not sure.
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