What to do when your workplace does not allow you to carry?
This is a discussion on What to do when your workplace does not allow you to carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; and when you have people crawling all over you and staring at your waistline and examining the contents of your pockets all day it would ...
March 7th, 2005 09:27 PM
I just can't imagine this happening. When I went to High School, putting hands on a teacher for any reasonwas simply not done. (With the notable exception of a 50 person brawl my Junior year where the Principal got his arm broken).
and when you have people crawling all over you and staring at your waistline and examining the contents of your pockets all day it would be somewhat difficult.
"Water can flow, or it can crash. Be like water, my friend."-Bruce LeeMy Blog
"Luck, often enough, will save a man if his courage does hold."
March 7th, 2005 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by F350
I forgot to mention a few other facts that slipped my mind. I work as a case manager for mentally I'll adults and I have to travel to their homes everyday. Every now and then I do transport my clients to different appointments. As to answering your questions here; 1. I drive my own vehicle, 2. yes I do transport clients usually on a weekly basis, 3. I travel into their homes, 4. No my place of employment has never done a vehicle search.
Hope this helps out! :sheildsmi
March 7th, 2005 10:02 PM
Assaults on Teachers
Happens with nauseating regularity. But as an observation, it only seems to happen to folks who act like grasseating PREY. The touchy feely sheeple Democrat liberals most often get "split" by an angry kid. Never happens to JROTC sergeants or teachers who also happen to be ex military. Wonder what that says?
Originally Posted by Fjolnirsson
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; NRA Endowment Life; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
March 8th, 2005 12:43 AM
I would probably carry my gun concealed in my car and a knife, OC and/or other weapon on my person if I liked my job. I cannot carry at work (in a State building) but I do carry in my car and keep my Benchmade on me, which is not a problem. But if there should ever be an incident at work, nighthawk and I have both agreed we would be the first ones down the back stairs to the parking garage and the first ones back up the elevator. We'll stop and get the Capitol Police officer in the lobby on our way back up.
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
March 8th, 2005 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by F350
F350 your response decribes my job almost to a T
So sure it dixtates how i carry do i like my job that much no i hate it righ now im stuck doing what i transfered out of ... Do i carry sometimes most of the time i run a country route when into the hood ya go though ...
March 8th, 2005 06:57 AM
Although a lot of professions have stumbling blocks to carrying on the job, many of those are simpler to overcome, all of which probably violate the company policy. But, the teaching profession has got to be the most difficult one to decide whether to carry or not. Assume that concealment is not the primary issue. The bigger problem is the "general public" and govt regulations that look at the school environment totally different. Just look at all the "don'ts"...selling liquor, drugs, etc. within a specified distance of a school. Same goes for topless bars.....and "a gun". The GP and Law are just not going to be tolerant, period. These same groups will point to statistical data to justify why these constraints should remain. The Columbines just don't occur often enough to "wake up" the sheeple to alternative methods of protecting students. They will again use statistics to determine that there is more of a risk of accidental injury or death caused by the presence of a firearm and that is a risk they are not willing to take. Yes, it is mostly nonsense, but unfortunately that is the way things are. I am not a teacher, but, if I were, I would not carry while in the school. I would, however, risk disciplinary/legal action by leaving the gun "well secured" in my vehicle. My defense would have to be that I am lawfully allowed to carry protection while not at school, and it is "reasonable" for me to have that protection to and from my place of work. I do work for a Defense Contractor at a highly classified and secured facility (armed guards), and our company does have a policy against carrying weapons onto the plant. I leave mine in my truck, which is parked in a pretty secure area, so slim chance of vehicle being broken into. THat presents the other problem in a school parking lot. If you decide to leave the weapon in the car, it is absolutely imperative that it be secure from break-ins. With that, I'd suggest one of the bolt down gun safes for vehicles. Although not perhaps the best solution, it does provide a means for a teacher to obtain his/her weapon in an emergency....obviously assuming that you aren't a hostage in your own classroom. This is a sticky one.
March 8th, 2005 09:08 AM
mrshonts, Carrying a firearm in violation of company policy is a personal decision that you have to make. It sounds like you are on your own a lot in the field. No searches of your person or vehicle and likely no metal detectors encountered. So carrying concealed would likely be an option for you.
Now the other questions you need to answer are: Would being fired for carrying a firearm cost you any certifications or licenses? Could you lose your ability to work in your chosen field entirely? Can you live without your income for 3-4 months or longer while finding another job? If your job takes you to prohibited areas, meaning places where it is illegal to carry concealed, that is a whole different level. I can't advocate or support violating the law.
It is your life, and you have to do what you believe is best for you in your situation. For me that means home alive and well. The job is just a job for me. I like and enjoy what I do, but I don't love it. In other words, at 40 years old I still don't know what I want to be when i grow up.
March 8th, 2005 11:06 AM
Scott; those were pretty much my followup questions too.
If I were in your shoes I would fix some kind of secure storage, possibly in the trunk where you could leave the piece while in a cliant's home(unless you know him to be violent)/your office there are a couple gun safes for cars out there. One used a cable to secure to car seat and storage box slides under the seat. But you must weigh the consequenses of getting caught.
1. I drive my own vehicle,
2. yes I do transport clients usually on a weekly basis,
3. I travel into their homes,
4. No my place of employment has never done a vehicle search.
March 8th, 2005 01:31 PM
Sounds pretty simple to me. When you took the job you agreed to follow their rules in exchange for employment. If you don't want to follow the rules, go get another job. It is the only truly moral and ethical option, IMO. If you feel it is OK to violate the rules you agreed to work under, you should also agree that it is OK for the employer to violate the agreement they have with you. How would you feel about it if you found out that your employer was cheating you out of benefits, pay, perks, or anything else that they had agreed to? Violate the law? Shame on you for for violating the law. Violate your working agreement? Shame on you for being a liar and a cheat.
March 8th, 2005 01:52 PM
Every post on this thread has very valuable information. Years ago I was in that situation and my solution was......... pocket carry. I have never been searched/frisked at work nor asked to "empty your pockets". If such is a fear, then Smart Carry!
March 8th, 2005 02:23 PM
1952 - 2006
I have worked security at The Las Vegas Hilton for almost 11 years. We used to work armed with company supplied Glock 19's. Then we were bought out by a corporation who decided that we should no longer be armed because the insurance cost too much. Many of us were extremely upset over thier decision.
Casinos in Las Vegas have been armed since the very early days because of the large amounts of cash that is moved around the floor at all times of the day and night.
We were allowed however to bring our personal CCW firearms into the building and keep them in our lockers. When a corporate executive found out about this a memo was distributed forbiding this as well. Now we must keep our firearms in our vehicles in the parking garage.
There are times when several of us carry regardless of corporate policy. Such as New Years Eve, when this town can get quite bizarre.
IMO it is absurd that Security in a casino has to be unarmed, we are unable to protect ourselves let alone our guests from any type of lethal encounter. There have been numerous shootings lately inside casinos and corporate opinion is that they would rather pay off a lawsuit than allow Security to engage a threat.
We are not allowed to have any type of defensive devices, ie: batons or pepper spray.
We did not take this job under these conditions. Corporate changed the rules in midstream.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
March 8th, 2005 02:48 PM
Culture has a lot to do with it
Realize guys that in juvenile street culture, personal contact is a lot more common. Watch a group of teens sometime. They typically hang off of each other, they're constantly sitting in each other's lap, hitting each other, etc.
When they do this to you, yes it's disrepectful, but you're also in their world and their parents didn't teach them any better. In some cases it's even a sign of acceptance.
Of course you have to be the professional and gingerly handle them sometimes. And occassionally when there's a fight in the hall, not so gingerly but that's a different story.
Some people honestly don't know why it's not okay to go open someone's desk and start going through it for no particular reason.
This tendency extends behind juveniles sometimes, which is one reason why I decided from the get go I don't ever want to pursue off body carry in any situation, particularly a work environment.
March 8th, 2005 02:59 PM
David, like acparmed I joined one of the largest computer companies (was #2 to IBM) when their entire personnel policies and procedures manual was less than 1/2" thick. When I left there 13 years later, the manual was ~3" thick, mostly what you can't do and what they are allowed to do to you.
When I signed an agreement to follow their rules, it was during the intro meeting with Personnel and I had never laid eyes on their manual. Only because I was hired as a supervisor, I actually was given a copy of the manual after the fact. This is typical.
So, you agree to a bunch of unknown policies and ANYTHING that they put in that book later. There are never any "training sessions" that discuss any of these policies (exception is the anti-harassment policy because the .gov requires it). Sorry, I don't feel morally or ethically obligated to obey things I've never seen in advance of agreement. YMMV
I always took the attitude that my life was worth more than my job, so if it came to that I'd be a survivor looking for a new job vs. deceased. Better trade-off in my judgment!
And yes, over the years I have been victimized by management that didn't follow the same policies that we were supposed to follow. Do you know what complaining about it accomplished? Absolutely nothing, except perhaps being labeled a "dissident".
I had an employee cheat on his time-cards (and we found that he'd been doing it regularly), we caught him red-handed (had Personnel call and speak with him at home at a time he was still "on the clock" according to his time-card), terminated him by the book, he writes a letter and delivers it in hand to the President's maid . . . we're told (by the head corporate personnel honcho) forget about the policies, he's to be reinstated with full back pay and we are forbidden to discuss anything about the incidents with him forever! So much for policies! Any idea what that did to employees' desire to follow rules after that?
March 8th, 2005 04:22 PM
1943 - 2009
Wow, this is a little harsh, don't you think? It seems to me that mrshonts asked a legitimate question in good faith.
Originally Posted by David Armstrong
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
March 8th, 2005 06:32 PM
David, no objection if that is your take. Just do not hold the rest of us to your standard.
What may be moral to me could be different from what is moral to you. My priorities are in any order you chose....God, Family, Country. All three have been number 1 at various times in my 70 plus years.
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