Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?

This is a discussion on Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Texas doesn't want you carrying if there is a mental health problem either. I had assumed that they are somehow able to include that as ...

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Thread: Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Prospector's Avatar
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    Red face

    Texas doesn't want you carrying if there is a mental health problem either. I had assumed that they are somehow able to include that as part of their background check, and most likely it would have to be connected with any arrest records. Not being familiar with any state or fed mental health records keeping, I believe that they cannot just go pulling doctor records, besides that would take a heck of lot longer to do.

    I won't get into definitions of mental illness, but there are obvious ones that I doubt any of us would want to see carrying a gun. Yep this could definitely be a Hot Topic.

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  3. #17
    Member Array triggertime's Avatar
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    mrshonts: It would depend on their diagnosis. If by mania you mean violent abnormal behavior, then probably not. People diagnosed with psychosis and schizophrenia shouldn't be walking around armed as their perception of reality is seriously altered. A person with illogical thinking patterns, delusions and hallucinations shouldn't be walking the streets armed.

    Should John Hinckley have a carry permit?

  4. #18
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    The Tourist

    I absolutely get your point.
    I guess every person has his/her quirky behavior & Lucky Golf Shoes.
    Albert Einstein was a fairly strange guy but I would probably trust him with a handgun. I honestly can't add any more suggestions to mrshonts original post because I don't know all that much about people who totally "freak out" or what is going on inside their mind when that happens.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  5. #19
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    QKS,

    The 'slippery slope' in this debate is really about who makes the decision.

    For example, most of the poeple here believe that if "a doctor says it's okay" then the citizen should get his permit.

    When has that meant anything to a liberal congress? Ultimately, they will take a professional opinion under advisement and define the issue their own way.

    Case in point, Wisconsin had a helmet law for motorcyclists for over a decade which was unnneeded and unwanted. As in our debate here, the matter involved free adults who could ascertain for themselves the risks; many would have worn one, anyway.

    Not good enough for the liberals. They started a smear campaign of "these guys will be a drain on state coffers with head injuries" all the while we asked these representatives to actually show us the ward where they were kept for treatment.

    The truth is, despite Thompson's book, bikers are pretty flush with cash. Bikes cost about 15 to 20K now.

    My point is that even when an issue is in reality a 'non-issue,' this does not stop a liberal bent. It should come as no secret here that the Brady crew does not believe CCW permits are necessary despite anecdotal instances where good guys are still alive.

    Give them a chance to curtail permits over "sanity issues" and you'll see a rash of legislation heretofore unneeded.

    Edit: BTW, Mrs. Honts, I am really looking forward to your upcoming treatise in JAMA, "A Gun Case, a Head Case, and a Case of the Willies." I am a bit concerned where you cite OCD patients exchanging recipes for ballistic gelatin. A minor point, but look at how long it took me to convince you that "bi-polars" are NOT northern bears with a flare for interior decorating.

  6. #20
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    Unless the person has been involuntarially commited or the dotor feels he poses a violent tenancies I see no reason to deny em a permit. Just my personal opinion. I also know a visually impaired CCW holder. This person has about 60% impairment to his vision.

  7. #21
    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    QKS,

    The 'slippery slope' in this debate is really about who makes the decision.

    For example, most of the poeple here believe that if "a doctor says it's okay" then the citizen should get his permit.

    When has that meant anything to a liberal congress? Ultimately, they will take a professional opinion under advisement and define the issue their own way.

    Case in point, Wisconsin had a helmet law for motorcyclists for over a decade which was unnneeded and unwanted. As in our debate here, the matter involved free adults who could ascertain for themselves the risks; many would have worn one, anyway.

    Not good enough for the liberals. They started a smear campaign of "these guys will be a drain on state coffers with head injuries" all the while we asked these representatives to actually show us the ward where they were kept for treatment.

    The truth is, despite Thompson's book, bikers are pretty flush with cash. Bikes cost about 15 to 20K now.

    My point is that even when an issue is in reality a 'non-issue,' this does not stop a liberal bent. It should come as no secret here that the Brady crew does not believe CCW permits are necessary despite anecdotal instances where good guys are still alive.

    Give them a chance to curtail permits over "sanity issues" and you'll see a rash of legislation heretofore unneeded.

    Edit: BTW, Mrs. Honts, I am really looking forward to your upcoming treatise in JAMA, "A Gun Case, a Head Case, and a Case of the Willies." I am a bit concerned where you cite OCD patients exchanging recipes for ballistic gelatin. A minor point, but look at how long it took me to convince you that "bi-polars" are NOT northern bears with a flare for interior decorating.
    This is only a question here and not to be taken personally like I stated in my opening thread. Also, in my opening thread I stated that these clients of mine require a lot of attention and the majority of these folks are not able to hold down any kind of job due to their illness. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONAL SINCE IT WAS ONLY A QUESTION TO OPEN OTHERS VIEWPOINTS!! And nowhere in my thread did I mention anything about OCD patients exchanging recipes for ballistic gelatin. I apologize if this topic hit a nerve for you but I only thought it would open some interesting discussions with everyone here. Oh, and by the way would you please not call me Mrs. Honts anymore since my username is mrshonts (Mr. Shonts). If you want to discuss anything further I am open to talking with you through e-mail.

  8. #22
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    I'm familiar with Tourist from this board and another, and I can tell you he enjoys picking on me (in good humor) and anybody within range of me, and since he does know your relation to me, you're fair game. (Do a search for his various Viet jokes on me.) If you're not familiar with him, I can understand how what he writes may translate wrong. If Tourist does truly have a serious issue with you, I'm sure the two of you can resolve it peacefully.

    Tourist,
    Please keep in mind that his clients are seeing a case worker because they need the extra assistance. These are people who include those who have or have tried to harm themselves and others. He's rushed more than one to the hospital for attempted suicide within the months I've known him. Mrshonts has a very valid topic that concerns him directly, because he is neck deep in it every day.

    Don't take things personally. While you or others you know competantly cope with a mental illness (I have CC friends who are on medications) and can function in society like normal, there are those who not properly medicate and become destructive.
    Last edited by Betty; March 9th, 2005 at 01:45 PM. Reason: adding stuff
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  9. #23
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    While I don't know Tourist from anywhere but here, I have to tell you he has always reminded me of a guy I know at work. Both of their senses of humor make me stop and try to figure it all out. I actually do figure it out about 40% of the time and just laugh and shake my head the other 60%. Listen to Betty. I think he's just pulling your leg because that's what he does to her. And don't worry, there's nothing wrong with your question. Were I in your line of work I would have been asking the same ones. And I'm glad you asked them.

    When you first posted it, I thought, nope, no way should they have a CCW. Then as I read others' posts I decided maybe I made my mind up a bit too quick. But now after Betty (the Paul Harvey of this thread) tells us the "rest of the story" I would fall back to my original thoughts. The people she describes should probably not be carrying and if they have threatened themselves or others, I would probably relay the situation to the powers that be. Some of you may disagree, but if I were in his (mrshonts') situation and someone I was assigned to shot an innocent, I would feel responsible for the situation.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  10. #24
    Member Array mrshonts's Avatar
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    I see what you are saying and I suppose I should do my best not to take it personally either when others are talking about me like that. I just wanted everyones perspective on this since I believe the type of folks I deal with should not be allowed to carry since most of them have history of attempted suicide or daily thoughts of it.

    This is a tough topic since on one hand we don't want to become a society where we have full control of peoples lives but on the other hand there are many folks out there that need that extra supervision since they cannot take care of themselves fully. This "category" of people, I believe, don't need to carry since they pose a threat to themselves and others around them but at what point do you determine when a person is not capable of arming themselves? This is a tough question to answer and I'm not even sure I have a good answer to this, but I'm open to hearing any different thoughts that are out there!!

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    With regards to The Tourist:

    He speaks clearly but we aren't listening.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    With regards to The Tourist:

    He speaks clearly but we aren't listening.
    Nahh, I enjoy The Tourist's posts
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  13. #27
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    Wink Out of my mind....back in five minutes....

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    Good topic.

    I think, like anything else, we have to give people the benefit of the doubt on this. Until they are proven by a mental health professional to be dangerous we must assume they are not.

    We all have pyschological irregularities of some kind; our own demons we must overcome.
    I'm with you 100% on this. Add to the mix that there are many anti-depressants like Prozac or Zoloft that do not make you "happy" or alter your mood one whit other than to make you feel "normal" or just not "sad."

    I think the line in the sand has to be ADJUICATED by the Courts to be mentally incompetent which is the standard here in Florida. I know too many so called mental health professionals (from being a parole officer--LOL) who are themselves liberal and virulently anti-gun. Same for Docs. Heck the AMA is an anti-gun organization! If it were up to them nobody would have any firearms!

    We start letting just anybody with a degree or a "concern" dictate our 2nd Amendment rights and they'll be gone faster than Michael Moore can eat a Whopper!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #28
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Oh, come'n guys, I do a gag about a 'bi-polar' doing interior decorating, and I'm the one that doesn't understand. Puhleez.

    Floyd, yes, I think it's because you don't know me that you don't know when you're being yanked. I never said my responses mirrored a specific person. However, I do view OCD patients as being at the low end of the pool. Technically, you can be treated by a therapist if you're OCD; the criteria here is that the behavior interfers with life as you would like to live it. In fact, I know of some OCD cases where drug therapy was prescribed.

    Me? Heck, I'm grateful to have a clean house.

    Using OCD patients as a relatively minor case, my point was that unless someone was careful these people would be categorized along with severe schizo cases. In other words, you lock your front door three times before you leave the house and then check your thyroid for lumps, in Michigan that makes you a 'nut,' hence no CCW permit.

    Now, for the rest of the personal issue, yes, I can correspond with you on private e-mail if you wish. I prefer my usual method for conveying displeasure with a fellow forum contributor. I have a complicated code for transmitting that concept.

    I say, "Luigi, I'm displeased with you for this reason." The other crap you've heard about bikers is that, mostly crap. I love a good debate and sweet wine with a woody finish. Life is a cabarnet, old chum.

    As for making light of your name replete with misspellings, I was complying to a request.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    OI do a gag about a 'bi-polar' doing interior decorating, and I'm the one that doesn't understand.
    That was a good one....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  16. #30
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    Bumper,

    Thanks, at least somebody got it.

    (mince-mince-mince. "The new colors for autumn are 'blubber and ivory.' You may accessorize in Eskimo foot. Seal you later." mince-mince-mince.)

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