Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?

This is a discussion on Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by The Tourist (mince-mince-mince. "The new colors for autumn are 'blubber and ivory.' You may accessorize in Eskimo foot. Seal you later." mince-mince-mince.) ...

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Thread: Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    (mince-mince-mince. "The new colors for autumn are 'blubber and ivory.' You may accessorize in Eskimo foot. Seal you later." mince-mince-mince.)
    I swear you remind me of a guy at work. Are you sure you don't live in Arizona?
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  3. #32
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    I think black-humor is pretty universal, Bumper.

    A few months ago, a guy I ride with, Mickey Foster, had my sides sore from laughing--at a funeral. It's what I needed at that moment.

  4. #33
    Member Array Moondoggie's Avatar
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    Tourist, your sense of humor reminds me of an old friend I've lost touch with..he used to talk about Timothy Leary and his brother, Really Leary.

    Good times, good laughs.

    We sat 2nd row at a Gallagher show after massive quantities of adult beverages OUAT...took days to be able to breathe normally because my sides were so sore from laughing.

    He's the friend who taught me how to reload. I must look him up, it's been far too long.

    To be on topic, I believe most state laws pretty much cover this, and in questionable cases I'm sorry but society must err on the side of caution with an avenue to refer these scenarios through a more thorough decision making process.
    If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

  5. #34
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    'doggie,

    I tell the same joke, about Oral Roberts and his evil twin, Rectal Roberts.

    Comedy is subjective. For example, I've heard 'dead cat' jokes since I was a strippling. So what's in the Wisconsin State Journal today? The big story is how people who favor a hunting season on feral cats are getting hate mail.

    During the 1930's, my Grandfather used to be invited to weddings for the singular purpose of telling ethnic jokes.

    Now to get to the issue:

    society must err on the side of caution
    Yikes. I'm sure someone sincerely felt this when they rounded up west coast indignenous Japanese during the 1940's.

    You could use that reasoning to further any ill and expedite the remedy.

    I'll admit to being a xenophobe, but I did take some flack when I offered that illegal aliens should be immediately deported after 9/11. After all, they are here 'illegally,' so what's the beef? Many of my friends challenged me that my stance was a 'short term' solution.

    But consider this, I'm bi-polar and I dislike violence. Having said that I feel I have somewhat of a duty to protect my wife and loved ones from a home invasion--despite my personal beliefs and condition. A Glock 27 sits facing the front door.

    BTW, I've melted down twice requiring rescue drugs and months of cognitive therapy. I'm also a weight-lifting biker; sort of the poster boy for those who wish to disarm us because there are "armed whacky predators" out there.

    My view is the opposite; I think society had better 'get it right.' Before they disenfranchise anyone, the burden of proof and due diligence had better be on them, in spades.

  6. #35
    Member Array Puppage's Avatar
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    They let heart attack victims continue to drive cars after they recover, why can't someone who sat with a shrink have their 2nd Amendment rights?
    Mentally ill is a broad brush. I would think that could be anything from seeking help to deal with a marital break up (depression) to hearing voices in your head & thinking you can fly.
    Both are mental illnesses but, I think we can all agree, no where near the same caliber. (no pun intended)
    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to
    rule." - H.L. Mencken

  7. #36
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    Tourist...

    don't overlook my caveat "with an avenue to refer these scenarios through a more thorough decision making process". I'm not saying the rights of these folks should be forfeited unilaterally by a low level bureaucrat, only after due process. I think there is an extablished procedure to appeal denial of a CCW in most jurisdictions. After all, convicted felons can petition to have their civil rights restored, but it's not a one-stop process.

    As to the Japanese issue, I can support the concept of internment, but I think that their property should have been preserved, they should have been accomodated more decently, and reparations should have been immediate. Our society has made progress. Today, the Japanese would get their day in court and the ACLU would be all over this with a much different outcome. We don't currently have any internment camps for masses of folks of Middle Eastern ethnicity. The folks who are in custody are there based upon individual circumstances (admittedly, some are iffy), not just becasue of their ethnicity.
    If you ain't the lead dog, the view never changes.

  8. #37
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    If the mentally ill people are such a danger maybe they should be incarcerated. Of course there is no money for this, so I guess we are left with the mrshonts of the world to be out there trying to help as best they can. My hat is off to you mrshonts.

    mrshonts,
    I know my state has a process for being declared incompetent. My state doesn't grant permits or allow incompetents to purchase firearms. So does TN have a similar process? Is it up to you to recommend someone go through that process? Maybe for some cases this needs to be done. However, I hope there is a stringent review and a burden of proof before someone is denied their rights.

    I can see the point where some people shouldn't own or carry guns. I went to inspect my club's range today, and was reminded that even some mentally competent people shouldn't own guns.

    -Scott-

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Read the yellow sheet next time you fill one out. See if you can find the word 'adjudicated'.

    What more can I say?

    We have given way too much control to government. Life is not without risk. IMO, one stop sign is too much government.
    Keep the shotgun handy!!

  10. #39
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    It took me a while to find it, but I found my handgun carry permit application for TN.

    Under Section III, number 12:

    A. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective or have you been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution?

    B. Have you had a court appoint a conservator for you by reason of a mental defect?

    C. Have you been judicially been determined to be disabled by reason of mental illness, development disability or other mental incapacity? (T.C.A. 39-17-1351)

    D. Have you been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm, as defined by T.C.A. 33-6-104 because of mental illness within 7 years from the date of application? (T.C.A. 39-17-1351)
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  11. #40
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Betty
    It took me a while to find it, but I found my handgun carry permit application for TN.

    Under Section III, number 12:

    A. Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective or have you been committed to or hospitalized in a mental institution?

    B. Have you had a court appoint a conservator for you by reason of a mental defect?

    C. Have you been judicially been determined to be disabled by reason of mental illness, development disability or other mental incapacity? (T.C.A. 39-17-1351)

    D. Have you been found by a court to pose an immediate substantial likelihood of serious harm, as defined by T.C.A. 33-6-104 because of mental illness within 7 years from the date of application? (T.C.A. 39-17-1351)
    Yup, I can see a "Jack Nicholson" look-a-like looney tune answering those questions on the form:
    A. No, I never had that adjective applied to me, and no, they were all physical hospitals.
    B. No, all the court appointees were liberals, and they seemed okay to me!
    C. No, but I was once in BSA Troop 22.
    D. No, my BSA Troop didn't engage in harmful activities.


    Sorry, couldn't resist!!

  12. #41
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    You have a 14 year old girl who washes her hands so many times per day that they bleed. Your attempts to question her, or even rub her with lotion, are met by severe crying jags. Your family doctor suggests you sign her into the hospital for a few weeks for treatment and an MMPI2 test as he suspects OCD. You comply.

    The girl is now 21 years old and ready to live in her own apartment. If she answers the application honestly, does she get the permit?

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Tourist
    You have a 14 year old girl who washes her hands so many times per day that they bleed. Your attempts to question her, or even rub her with lotion, are met by severe crying jags. Your family doctor suggests you sign her into the hospital for a few weeks for treatment and an MMPI2 test as he suspects OCD. You comply.

    The girl is now 21 years old and ready to live in her own apartment. If she answers the application honestly, does she get the permit?
    Hmmmm, now THAT is a good thought provoking question. I think I would issue it to her.
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  14. #43
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    Bumper,

    Careful, guy. The girl has been legally signed into an institution (by her legal guardians, in this case her parents) for the purpose of a mental evaluation. What the doctor suspects, and what the MMPI2 test would no doubt prove, is that she is OCD. And OCD is a 'mental ailment.'

    Just for fun I made it OCD, deliberately, which while stressful and anxiety producing for the patient, does not usually end in a water tower with a deer rifle. Most sufferers just sit home cleaning.

    Under law, and this is the crux of my catterwalling in this debate, is that by definition she is menatally ill to the degree of 'enforced confinement.' She is precluded from a CCW license.

  15. #44
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    I assumed that your point was that she was checked in when she was 14 and seven years later (assuming she had no mental problems) she applied for a permit. The old addage that assume = u make an ass out of me may possibly apply here. Shows ya what I know about mental illness (and I am thankful for that).

    I guess I should have stuck with what I was originally going to post, "I would probably say yes for her permit and question your attempt to rub lotion on a 14 year old girl. It would be enough to make me go on a "severe crying jag" to have a large biker come up to me with a bottle of lotion....
    Bumper
    Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.

  16. #45
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    Wink Drop 'em like he's hot.

    to have a large biker come up to me with a bottle of lotion
    First complaint I've ever had...good thing I only asked women.

    Your 'assume' aspect is what I was looking for. Obviously, tongues would wag at her school, her neighborhood and her church. Her medical files would contain her treatment--as mine do--and forever more she is/was a 'mental patient.'

    (One day I walked into my shrinks office, however, I was not carrying a duck. There in his waiting room was two bikers with whom I lift weights. Kind of an odd scenario, even for us. We joked that this confirmed society's opinioon on 'crazy bikers.' To be fair, one of my friends had just lost a son to a suicide, and I was continuing in cognitive therapy as an adjunct to my medication.)

    During this month, I stumpled and broke one hand bone in four places. Once the x-rays were read, I was sent to Dean Clinic's special facility that is called 'the hand clinic.' There doctors familiar with breaks to fingers, hands and wrists can give patients special treatment for the particular nerves and rehab problems endemic to hand injuries. No one avoids me for this injury, in fact, people wonder how I can still sharpen.

    I make no secret of being bi-polar; I'm not going to hide in my bedroom, although during the zenith of the breakdown I spent six weeks there. I had a special 'injury' and I went to a special doctor, as I did for my hand.

    However, despite my differing seratonin levels, I have the same needs for security and safety you do. I have a wife, a home and possessions that are just as vulnerable to cretins as people in this forum.

    To surmise that a hand lotion problem or manias preclude us from common problems in society is a little naive' in this context.

    I do plan to use it in arguments to avoid fights. My planned patter will be, "Do you know what 'diminished capacity' is? It means killing you and being back out in society within 72 hours..."

    This might not be true, however it will use society's fear of crazies against them. And after all, beating the aggressor is what this forum is about, par qua?

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