Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits?
This is a discussion on Should Mentally Ill Adults have carry permits? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I understand what you're saying Tourist and I guess the "blanket" that is used on concealed carry permit applications should probably be reconsidered. There is, ...
March 12th, 2005 02:03 PM
I understand what you're saying Tourist and I guess the "blanket" that is used on concealed carry permit applications should probably be reconsidered. There is, however, someplace out there in the issue where a line needs to be drawn. That guarantees that this will forever be a controversial subject because it's impossible for all to agree where that line is. :sport15:
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
March 12th, 2005 03:56 PM
Yes, I agree with that assessment. There are people like John Hinckley out there, and there always will be.
When are you too blind to drive a car? We test, we check, we then test you with glasses. If glasses are required, it's on your license. And there are a lot more drivers than crazies, however during rush hour on the Beltline in Madison, Wisconsin you might get a differing opinion.
My view is like any other license/fee participation. Even for a CCW license you have classroom time and range time. If you believe that any provocation is justifiable with gunfire, you don't get the license. If the only target you hit is in the lane next to you, you don't get the license.
However, I have done my bit. I had a mania, then depression and anxiety and then I turned to a doctor. With treatment from my psychiatrist (meds guy) and a cognitive therapist (talking guy), I gained control of my life to let me work and exist in mainstream activity.
Consider this 'mental glasses.' If needed to show that I need cognitive therapy a few times per year to get a CCW license, so be it. No I won't like it, because I feel gun ownership and use are protected rights. I wish the Supreme Court would underline that issue, but it's not coming. My need for safety is here already.
Besides, I am presently 'out there' in your community. I will protect my wife and myself now, today, with firearms.
This is why I feel we should be talking about rights, not personal physical and mental conditions. What are my rights under law? Are they different from yours?
March 12th, 2005 05:15 PM
Really Good Thread.
It's unfortunate that we live in a society where personal & public opinion & public policy are all dictated by possible legal ramifications & lawsuit repercussions....AND Public Outrage & Media Backlash.
It is delusional to think that any public or political figure is ever going to approve or "put forth" any legislation or amendment to any existing law that is going to make it any easier for anybody with anything classed as any sort of "mental illness" to carry a handgun.
It's just is not going to happen folks...not on a Local, State, or Federal level.
It's not a "hot button" issue & no politician is ever going to touch either the subject or the issue. The "What If ?? ~ And Then Fear Factor" will always "kick in" before any (even) Pro Gun Republican lawmaker would touch it as a Gun Law Change or gun related topic. I am not saying that I agree with that but only that it's just the reality of the situation.
In Fact I am betting that even if you made a HUGE BIG MONEY donation to the NRA you could not get them to "step up" & propose any "law change" to make "mental illness concealed carry" any easier on Constitutional grounds. Any takers on that bet?
Last edited by QKShooter; March 12th, 2005 at 05:26 PM.
March 12th, 2005 11:37 PM
The issue is too hot. If the words 'mental illness' and 'firearms' are ever joined together in one sentence it will be by the left to further limit your 2nd Amendment rights.
March 13th, 2005 02:09 AM
On a more serious note "this time", I read the preceding posts from The Tourist with a lot more intent. I really hadn't thought of "all" the various things that are technically labeled as "mental illness/affliction". In my naive thinking, I had assumed that just because a person filling out a CHP form had to check a box stating "yes" I've undergone/been treated for...etc. a mental condition, that it wasn't a foregone conclusion that the permit would be denied. As with checking boxes about arrests and such, I thought that the only mental conditions which would prevent you from being approved, are those that involved "violent acts", which probably got you arrested to begin with. I certainly wouldn't have considered OCD as falling into that category, unless of course the compulsive disorder was killing people....Heck, Howard Hughes suffered from OCD! Great Post Tourist...got me thinkin!
On lighter note, I have to disagree with ya on one point.....MOST DRIVERS ARE CRAZIES !!!!
March 13th, 2005 05:11 AM
I think this question can be answered with another question:
"Do the mentally ill have a right to life in a free society?"
I say "yes." I also say that there are unfree societies for them if they abuse that right, the same as with the rest of us.
Besides, who's going to prevent them from having a gun anyway? The police and courts? Remember, they're crazy! They aren't criminally responsible if they don't know what they're doing.
Keep up the good fight, pass the word, and teach others to fight back when unjustly assaulted--be it on the street or in the courtroom. Self-defense is a normal, moral act. So teach your family, friends, and students practical defense against both physical and legal marauders. by Jerry VanCook
March 13th, 2005 08:37 AM
I think the only way the issue would ever get resolved would be for a LTC to actually be denied to a person with a mild mental illness (for that stated reason) & then be appealed to go through the court system to be ruled on.
You are correct that most Americans don't want to know any specific details about anything.
The majority of Americans are "Buzz Word" oriented & this topic would require too much thinking!
Since this issue would be classed as a Political Hot Potato that does not affect enough voters ~ it is one can of worms that (you can be sure) will never be opened by either side of the aisle.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
March 13th, 2005 12:23 PM
In a nutshell, that's the argument. Where's the line? And who makes the decision on when that line is crossed?
who's going to prevent them from having a gun anyway? they're crazy!
I'm sitting here in a $330K home with a wife who loves me, my own business and a brand new Harley. When I miss church, people call.
In 2001, I was barricaded in my bedroom for 6 weeks. I showered with the tides. I babbled, I feared, I unloaded my own handlgun from under the bed--just in case. I lost over 50 pounds. The anxiety was so bad that I called the Dean Clinic night-time hot-line and begged for Trazadone just to sleep.
My wife, unschooled at that time on mental illness, thought I had gone schizophrenic and had a closed-door meeting with my meds and cog guys to see if I needed to be committed. It was that close.
I didn't think I was 'insane' during that period. I knew who I was, I knew right from wrong, but the world was hopeless on a tilt. It took a year out of my life.
So who do I show the governing board for a CCW license? The person I can become, or the person I can become? (That phrase is not mis-typed).
I know this, guys, guns aside. I used to love chrome, guns and thrills. Today I slept late and had a leisurely conversation with my wife as we gave the Bichons belly-rubs.
I told Betty that the thing that impressed me at my biker friend Doug's funeral was the song they played, "Live Like You Were Dying." Since he was a Harley employee, the company bought the coffin and the orange Harley banner was sewn to the inside lid of the cover. Over 2/3's of us were in leather, easily differenciated by the short 5'4" stature of his relatives in civilian clothes. A humorous gathering, a serious message.
This thread has given us many aspects to debate, but I'll admonish you one thing. The old adage, 'you won't miss it until it's gone,' also applies to health. As I watched my world crumbling and my wife take a on a leadership role she did not welcome, I hated myself for not being able to get up and walk 20 feet and sit next to her, eating and watching TV.
Enjoy you life, keep your powder dry, and watch those seratonin levels.
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