Question for others who work with Teens

This is a discussion on Question for others who work with Teens within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am currently finishing studying to become a youth minister. This coming weekend I will be on an out of state trip with a group ...

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Thread: Question for others who work with Teens

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    Question for others who work with Teens

    I am currently finishing studying to become a youth minister. This coming weekend I will be on an out of state trip with a group of students. I am legal to carry in that state (IN) But am not sure if carry on University Property is legal; and have wondered about pocket carrying my Kel-tec while there.

    For those of you who work with students on trips like this (ministry, boy scouts, etc. ) what do you normally do and how would you go about securing the firearm at night (since I would be in a hotel room with 3 or 4 boys).

    Also for those from IN is it legal to carry on University property, I can not seem to find it.

    I have not yet decided to carry and some here may wonder "Why not carry" but these are the hardest problems I would have to solve. We would be at a Christian convention and as we all have discussed here religious gatherings are not sacred for shooters and I am not sure how to go here.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

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    A trigger lock would secure the gun. Other than that , no advice.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Leave the gun at home. Youth groups, kids, parents, church trips, adults, guns, etc. don't mix.

    God bless you for your calling, but in this day and age, in this litigous society, don't put yourself in a questionable situation. There will be a parent that will hang you and your church out to dry.

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    A P-3at...

    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    Leave the gun at home. Youth groups, kids, parents, church trips, adults, guns, etc. don't mix.

    God bless you for your calling, but in this day and age, in this litigous society, don't put yourself in a questionable situation. There will be a parent that will hang you and your church out to dry.
    will fit in pants pockets and P.J. pockets...concealed is concealed...

    ret
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    Leave the gun at home.
    Unless you can gurantee that there won't be any problems that isn't great advice.

    In the past when I have traveled with kids I have used this. As for carrying on a university campus, can't help you. I know you can't here-- but you aren't coming here.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

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    I'm sure the teens would be fine with it, but the parents would have the ability to make legal waves. If it's your church and you're the pastor, that's one thing. If you're simply going on an outing with social friends, that's one thing. But you're studying to be a youth pastor, this is an official church function/retreat, and (presumably) this isn't your church. The parents haven't given consent to their children being around you on an official function with you armed, and a lawsuit might well successfully argue just that very thing. Until you've had the opportunity to discuss with your church's pastor, you might well be putting the church out on a limb.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    Senior Member Array darkvibe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    Leave the gun at home. Youth groups, kids, parents, church trips, adults, guns, etc. don't mix.
    Someone forgot to tell the bad guy that last time one shot up a church

    You are doing the right thing. Definitely carry if you can. Do your research and hopefully someone here can point you in the right direction regarding carry on a university campus in that state.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    you might well be putting the church out on a limb.
    IMO better the church out on a legal limb than being dead because you didn't carry.

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    If you search the web for whatever university you'll be going to and locate their official site - the school policy rules and regs will almost always be posted there.
    Chances are great that it will state NO FIREARMS - No Weapons and usually OC Spray forbidden also.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkvibe View Post
    Someone forgot to tell the bad guy that last time one shot up a church IMO better the church out on a legal limb than being dead because you didn't carry.
    Sure. But to do so without the express knowledge and permission of the church may well bring that church down, should an errant child's speech to a parent hit the wrong ears. Can't dismiss that so lightly, when fooling with someone else's organization. Might well be the death of that church, in a manner of speaking.

    This is in no way advocating failure to go armed. It is, however, suggesting alternatives: (a) get the church pastor's official permission; or (b) don't be the one to lead this official outing. The "missing" third option is to carry concealed anyway, opening up the church to likely lawsuit via disgruntled and offended parent(s) for putting children at risk, blah blah blah. Very real risk, that (the lawsuit, not the CC's magic gun).
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 26th, 2007 at 01:47 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    If it is legal to carry then I would carry.

    I would tell the kids not to touch the weapon put it in a lock box over night with the key around my neck.
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

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    Member Array lilducky08's Avatar
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    I have been a pastor for 9 years now, 6 of which was as a youth pastor. You do not want to bring a gun with you. CCW and shepherding these kids on a retreat is not a wise move. If a parent hears about a gun being brought (without permission of parents and pastor/elder board) my guess is that you would be fired if you were on staff, never hired if you were hoping to be hired, and have a tough time getting a job using that church as a reference. If you were my youth pastor and I found out you had brought a gun on a youth event (without my knowledge), I would fire you. I am all for CCW, but when parents drop off their kids for a weekend, they expect that there kids will be safe, and there are plenty of kids around with parents that don't agree with us that CCW is more safe for those around. Get permission from you senior pastor, your elder board, and the parents of the kids or leave it at home.
    Our own heart, and not other men's opinion, forms our true honor. ~ Samuel Coleridge

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    New Member Array rockfordhx's Avatar
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    This is a great question and something that I have never really considered myself. I work with a childrens group also, and have never NOT considered carrying when on trips with them.

    I do not understand the arguement against not carrying. If it is concealed and locked when not on your person then why would it be unwise?

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    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    I would leave it at home. Guns and teens just don't mix well. Steve48

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    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    If you have permission from all adults associated with the venture then carry, you might just need it and as we all know it's better to have and not need.
    If you don't have permission, haven't sought permission, won't seek permission, then it is ALL down to you. It's your decision and you will wear the consequences, large or small.

    This requires more thought and more counsel than you will get for free on the webnets.

    Good luck, do the decent thing and get permission.

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    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    The problem is the trust of the parents.

    Whenever you send a child somewhere in the care of a chaperon, both the chaperon and the parent have an implied agreement that the chaperon will do everything in their power to keep the child safe.

    Many parents don't believe in carrying guns and would view such as a violation of this agreement.

    The parent has a right to decide whether to send their child or not based on all of the facts.

    If the chaperon can reasonably expect that a parent would object to you being armed, you have a duty either to let the parents know or to leave the gun at home.

    I would check with the Senior Pastor. If he says going armed is fine and shouldn't upset anyone, then you can reasonably rely on that answer.

    My own choice would be that if I was told that I couldn't go armed, I would let someone else chaperon.

    I don't envy your position. If you go armed against the wishes of the parents, you are screwed. Most likely if you refuse to go on the trip you could be screwed too.

    Also, the "inconvenient truth" is that if you go unarmed and the SHTF you are royally screwed.

    Good luck. Hope things work out.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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