Need opinions. Chiropractor is located in shopping complex with "no guns" signs.

This is a discussion on Need opinions. Chiropractor is located in shopping complex with "no guns" signs. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok, I have been going to the chiropractor several times a month since probably July. This is the best chiropractor I have ever been to, ...

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Thread: Need opinions. Chiropractor is located in shopping complex with "no guns" signs.

  1. #1
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    Need opinions. Chiropractor is located in shopping complex with "no guns" signs.

    Ok, I have been going to the chiropractor several times a month since probably July. This is the best chiropractor I have ever been to, and she actually cares about how I am feeling and wants me to get better with my problem. She is always asking about what I've been up to, what I'm going to do on the weekend, how my girlfriend is, etc. She knows I like guns and says that doesn't bother her, as long as guns aren't pointed at her then she's got no problem. I really like this chiropractor and I hate to take my business elsewhere because of that.

    Well, the area she is located in has a grocery store, and several other small individual businesses. The person who owns the entire property and leases to these businesses, has put up "no guns" signs for the whole property. It doesn't appear they have even given the individual business a chance to decide for themself at all.

    I don't do any other business here except the chiropractor. In Nebraska it is perfectly legal to carry in your vehicle on posted property, and leave your gun in the vehicle. I don't wear my gun when I go into the chiropractor anyways, because I have to lay on my side occasionally, and she does adjust my lower back. I just feel it would be in the way, and I don't want to be having to remove it while inside there.

    How would you handle this? Should I ask her if she has the right as an individual business owner to decide for herself on this matter.. regardless of what the landlord wants? Should I mention my displeasure to her and ask if she'd consider talking to the landlord about the signs if she has no problem with CCW? Should I give her one of my "no guns = no money" cards I have and see if she'd give that to the landlord?

    This is a non issuefor me in a way, since I don't carry my gun in there as it is. But I don't go after these signs just for me, I go after them for all permit holders, and I go after them to protect other innocent people from being in an area where only bad people can have guns. I just want to know what you'd do in this situation. If my chiropractor has no control over the signs, and doesn't like them.. then I hate to drop her because of the moron landlord.. since she is very good at what she does. However, if she is in support of the signs.. I will have to inform her I'm finding another chiropractor.

    anyways, give me your opinions.

    edited to add... this is an outdoor shopping center.. each business has its own entrance and is separate from eachother.

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  3. #2
    Member Array stoneypete's Avatar
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    You already said you don't carry into this place anyway, so the sign really has no affect on your chosen activities. Therefore, changing Doctors would be overkill.

    You could write a letter to each shop and informing them you will not be shopping there because of the sign and sending a copy to the owner of the mall.

    Personally, I doubt I would do a thing.
    'The assailant chooses the time, location and method of attack.

    Since they are unlikely to let you know ahead of time when, where and how violent they're going to be, you should always be prepared.' - matiki

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Carry anyway. What you can do is to pass through the rest room each time you enter/exit. Bring a bag or briefcase each time. "Disarm" by placing the firearm in there, during each visit. You'll still have it, though it won't be on your person at that instant. Better than nothing. It's either something like that, or go elsewhere. If you choose to go elsewhere, make clear the reason why you're taking your business somewhere else (that they value perceived safety above actual safety and your right to carry).
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    While I appriciate all efforts to protect our rights and I don't go to restraunts that serve alchol because it is illegal, there comes a point where causing trouble is just causing trouble...It could just be a liability issue for the landlord or a couple of businesses just don't have the guts to bring forward they don't want that kind of patronage.

    This may be one of those sleeping dog times.

    My opinion would change if there was a whole herd of CCW holders that shopped or would shop at the other stores but that's just my plug nickle
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  6. #5
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    I think sometimes we over-think the no guns - no business thing. There are many places we cannot CCW and it's not going to change.

    We need to try to explain the truth to those that can influence change and not give our business to those that won't/can't change up to a point.

    But we're going to face some situations that we can't change and we have to decide if we're going to carry anyway, go there and not carry, or not go there. For example, I've had to take some people to the ER numerous times (long story) and the gun stays in the car. But in my area, Hardee's and some Waffle Houses are no carry and I avoid them like a plague.

    But for a chiropractor that didn't make the policy and since you're going to have to disarm for treatment anyway, it may not be an issue.

    And I would concur that a 'brief' case would be a good option as long as it can remain under your control at all times during the treatment.
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  7. #6
    Member Array thinkat's Avatar
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    We need to try to explain the truth to those that can influence change and not give our business to those that won't/can't change up to a point.
    That's exactly right. Here is a story of what you can accomplish with professionallism, politeness, and education.

    http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/3844/83/

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    The neurosurgeon who operated on my lumbar spine and also did my cervical fusion recently moved to a new location that's posted as no carry so I leave my gun locked in the car. It's sort of a no brainer really, as hard as it is to find good, competent and caring medical care it's not worth it to raise a stink over something they don't even have control over.

    I have three doctors that I really like now and I've put my life in their hands on more than one occasion: My PCP, my orthopedic surgeon and my neurosurgeon. There's no way I'm going to give any of them up over a policy they have no control over. Hell, I trust them enough that I even sent my mom to them when she needed back surgery.
    Jack

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    No over-thinking. It's very simple, really.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    The doctor's office is probably the ONLY time I practice off body carry. There is no posting but I am in a very liberal area and his conversations with me have indicated a liberal bent. There is no reason though I can't have my work satchel with me or leave the gun inside the secure inside pocket of the coat I bring with me. I don't leave my coat or a rack in the office, I bring it with me to the examining room (and would do so even if it didn't have a gun).

  11. #10
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    So far, by using calm and reasonable thinking.. I have gotten 1 store to decide against posting a sign, 1 owner to remove signs at several of his stores he owns.. and with a few other permit holders, got applebees to take down their signs. So I know that being smart about it is the best way to go. I educated them and they saw the light.

    My beef isn't so much if one small business wants to put up a sign.. it's the fact that landlords are setting the policies for every business in the complex. it's not a mall type place.. it's just a place where many different businesses happen to be on land that is owned by the same company. The thing I am trying to find out is whether landlords in Nebraska have the legal right to enfoce policies like this on their tenants.

    And for the record, I don't plan on dropping my chiropractor over this. What I was getting at is bringing it to her attention, see if she knows whether or not she has the right to decide if she can post a sign for herself or not. She seems to be a logical normal person. As I said, she's known I'm into guns and she says she has no problem with people and guns, as long as they don't point them at her it's all good. I was thinking more along the lines of just giving her one of those cards and see if she'd take it to the person who owns the properties.

    Somehow though, I'd like to try to find a way to convince these people to let the individual business owner decide the policy for themself. how I'm gonna do that.. I've yet to figure out.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    In MN the landlord does not have the right to post, each individual renter must post for themselves. I assume this is not the case in NE. Your Dr. seems to be OK with guns and you don't carry to her office as it is. If she was not OK with them I would find another Dr but this posting is not her fault, and as stated earlier, you don't carry there anyway. I would let her know that you think she should protest the signs to her landlord and why you think this.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  13. #12
    Member Array jednp's Avatar
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    Well I had to go to the chiropractor today.. I noticed the sign for the realty that owns the place.. I wrote down the name and number. I gave them a call. This place kind of takes care of some management issues for the various businesses around the city... at least the things that the managers of the places don't want to deal with.

    I was told by this guy that the insurance companies are the reasons these signs are being put up. He told me that he's not a gun guy.. so he's kind of clueless about these things. I sat and listened to him explain why the signs are posted.. which from an insurance standpoint.. I get why they think that way. But then I informed him about all of US here on the net.. all of us permit holders that daily talk safety and being responsible when carrying a weapon. You all know what we have to say about concealed carry so I won't go too far into it.

    Long story short, he agreed with me... he wasn't aware of some of the things.. but he was intersted in what I had to say and was glad to know some of the things. At the end of the call he gave me his email address and said shoot me an email, explaining that you shop there and are offended by the sign.. explain briefly that you are a law abiding person, provide some sort of "proof" to that fact.. and explain how criminals won't listen to the signs. He said he will forward that to the management of the property who asked that they post the signs.. and try to convince them to remove them... he said he can't guarantee it though because under the laws or something, they have to do what the management wants them to do for them. But he said he can say look... I haven't gotten a single call from anyone saying "thanks for putting up these signs". But I have gotten 1 call saying they were very offended by it, etc. And see what goes from there.

    At least this guy is now aware of how much we all care about being responsible with guns. I was telling him how too many people have misconceptions of law abiding gun owners, and explained how studies have showed that permit holders are among some of the most law abiding people there are.

    So, he now knows the truth.. and we'll see what goes from there. He was very gracious in offering me probably 20 minutes of his time, and he totally agrees with what I had to say.. it's just whether or not the management wants to listen to reason.. or listen to insurance companies.

  14. #13
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    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    My chiropractor took an x-ray of my spine and asked me if I had swallowed a gun recently...

    Not really, but when I attend a 'business office' where I may be examined (excluding any UFShands property...can't carry by law...), I simple revert to my P-3AT pocket carry rather than the usual Kimber Ultra...

    I'm still armed, and concealed is concealed...I just gain a # on the scale...

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
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