Montana Gun Bill Killed

This is a discussion on Montana Gun Bill Killed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Once again, proposed "stand your ground" legislation has been shot down (pun intended) by the liberal Democrats in the State Senate. No, this is not ...

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Thread: Montana Gun Bill Killed

  1. #1
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    Montana Gun Bill Killed

    Once again, proposed "stand your ground" legislation has been shot down (pun intended) by the liberal Democrats in the State Senate. No, this is not an April Fool's joke. Similar legislation failed in 2005.

    I lay part of the blame for this failure on the lukewarm, at best, support of the NRA. In 2005, they supported the more high profile Castle Doctrine bill in Florida, and in 2007, it was Texas's turn. The GOA wasn't much better.

    This state is drifting to the left at an alarming rate.

    Here's the full story:




    Lawmakers take shots over gun-rights bill

    By ALAN SUDERMAN
    Associated Press Writer







    HELENA, Mont. (AP) -- Lawmakers took shots at each other Saturday over a proposed gun-rights bill, the day after it was tabled by a committee Democrats control.

    "I'm disappointed," said Rep. Jack Wells, R-Bozeman. "The Democrats ... apparently don't support gun rights."

    Sen. Larry Jent, D-Bozeman, fired back that Wells was "anti-law enforcement" and "does not represent the interest of the safe community."

    He scoffed at the notion that he was against gun rights and pointed out that he was an expert marksman in the Army and a champion biathlete. Jent said the bill was a bad idea proposed by a "crazy fringe outfit."

    "I'm tired of a bunch of wingnuts from the Montana Shooting Sports Association thinking they dictate public policy in this state," Jent said. "And Republicans ought to stand up to the MSSA."

    Gary Marbut of the Montana Shooting Sports Association said the bill was crucial to clarify that law-abiding people legally can brandish guns to defray potential conflicts. He said most Montanans agree.

    "We're really in the majority in Montana as I see it," Marbut said.

    Rep. Ed Butcher, R-Winifred, agreed. He said the Senate is dominated by liberals whose views on guns were far afield from the political mainstream.

    The bill's opponents, which include law enforcement agencies, have said the measure will give criminals more rights to assert self-defense in violent crimes and make prosecuting them harder.

    "There's already a right to self-defense in Montana, period," said the committee's chairman, Sen. Jesse Laslovich, D-Anaconda.

    Wells said he was frustrated that his attempts to work with law enforcement agencies on the bill were rebuffed. Supporters of the bill said the police want a monopoly on being able to carry a gun.

    The issue has been wrapped up in partisan politics ever since the state Republican Party used it as the centerpiece of attack advertising, earlier this month, against Democrats.

    The measure's fate may have been sealed at Wednesday's hearing on the bill. Yellowstone County Attorney Dennis Paxinos told committee members that a woman who had been touted as an example of someone standing to benefit from the bill was a drug user who had gone "nutso."

    The bill took a tortured route through House floor debates to reach the Senate. After being supported initially, the bill was killed amid pressure from police groups, was resuscitated with the help of gun-rights activists and then was supported 57-43.

    Gun-rights groups have pushed for the legislation, often called a "no-retreat" law, in other states as well.

    ---

    The bill is House Bill 340.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

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  3. #2
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    Bummer. The Castle Doctrine should be in every ccw state to protect us for simply defending ourselves and to protect us from civil suits. Not good news.

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    VIP Member Array raevan's Avatar
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    The NRA is made up of the members, What did you do to support the bill? Did you as a member of the NRA, you are a member right, write to all your state reps in the state government? The more people who let their government know how they feel the greater chance that these things pass. People blame the NRA because things don't get passed, well if it is the NRA's fault then it is the fault of the NRA members in your state for not speaking up and working to get more members so you have enough voice to be heard.

    I get tired of people blaming the NRA or some other pro gun orginization. They cannot have any effect without the support of their members.

    Rant off.

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    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    To continue on with Raevan's rant:

    How is it that a state like Montana has allowed it's state legislature to become so liberal in the first place. Are the true conservatives supporting not only the NRA but the other conservative organizations in the state. I understand that the real left wing millionaires from California are coming up and buying property and using Montana as their play stations but those people don't vote in Montana do they they only send money to the few liberals that you have.

    Am I missing something here?
    Timmy Jimmy

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    I don't care if Senator Jent is/was a fellow military member....he's an idiot using the excuse that we in LE aren't being sufficiently protected if their pet anti-gun aren't passed....if he had half a operating brain cell, he'd understand that John n' Jane Criminal could care less about the rule of law.

    Same goes for the politically-connected LE managers that were likely the ones that supported the death of this bill. Shame on them!

    And how dare he denigrate the MSSA.

    As for criminals asserting self-defense.......oy vey.
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    The bill's opponents, which include law enforcement agencies, have said the measure will give criminals more rights to assert self-defense in violent crimes and make prosecuting them harder.
    This little tidbit got me . How can someone claim self defense while committing a crime? Where do these people get this idea? And out of all the other states that have "stand your ground" laws , why don't we hear that THEY are having this supposed problem ? Hope you guys can get some people with common sense elected next time .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    The bill's opponents, which include law enforcement agencies, have said the measure will give criminals more rights to assert self-defense in violent crimes and make prosecuting them harder.
    Yeah, Hmmm here too. Michigans "No Duty to Retreat" law specifically doesn't apply unless you are somewhere you have the legal right to be (so carrying in a posted store is out), or if you are in the commision of a crime. The above line is just Left winger speak for: "I'm an irrational, power hungry coward, who throws my money and big mouth around so I make a lot of people hate me, but that is how I make myself feel important."

    We do need to be active and contacting our politicians. They are supposed to represent OUR views. We just need to let them know our views.
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    We used to live in Montana, the'last best place'. Then the Californicans began buying it up. Now it is a very expensive outdoor looney bin.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Lots of conservatives live in California, but are outnumbered there

    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy View Post
    I understand that the real left wing millionaires from California are coming up and buying property and using Montana as their play stations but those people don't vote in Montana do they they only send money to the few liberals that you have.
    Am I missing something here?
    Regarding Montana elections being influenced by people from California, it is interesting to look at some comparative election results from the 2004 presidential election at this website:

    Election statistics

    2004 California results:
    Bush..........5,509,826 votes......44%
    Kerry.........6,745,485 votes......54%

    2004 Montana results:
    Bush...........266,063 votes.......59%
    Kerry..........173,710 votes.......39%

    It would seem that there are about 20 times as many conservative voters in California as Montana. And anybody permanently migrating from California to Montana is probably a conservative trying to escape the liberal gun laws and other laws of California. So it could be that most California migrants are making Montana more conservative, rather than less so.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by raevan View Post
    The NRA is made up of the members, What did you do to support the bill? Did you as a member of the NRA, you are a member right, write to all your state reps in the state government? The more people who let their government know how they feel the greater chance that these things pass. People blame the NRA because things don't get passed, well if it is the NRA's fault then it is the fault of the NRA members in your state for not speaking up and working to get more members so you have enough voice to be heard.

    I get tired of people blaming the NRA or some other pro gun orginization. They cannot have any effect without the support of their members.

    Rant off.
    Yeah, I wrote letters! I wrote letters to each member of the House & Senate Judiciary committees, as well as my district representative and senator. So don't tell me I didn't give my support.

    The bill had strong support from individual Montana NRA members. So yeah, we spoke up. My gun club passed a resolution of support. The lack of NRA support at the national level is my complaint. They spent their support money in Florida in 2005 and Texas in 2007. That's a fact.

    As to working to get more members, you're apparently unaware that the entire population of the state of Montana is less than the Seattle/Tacoma area. It's unlikely we'll ever have "enough voice to be heard" compared to states like Florida & Texas.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  12. #11
    Member Array Longbow's Avatar
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    The voice of the people of MT is very small, We are the third largest state in the lower 48 and we have less the one million residents, All of us that are pro 2nd and pro CCP that I know are very active in writing are reps. Unfortunately our reps go with the money, and the money is from the Democrats that have moved into the state trying to turn it into there own Kalifornia wonderland, You only have to own property here for six month to become a resident, and that allows you to vote here.
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    Nra Support On Texas And Fla

    Every organization has funding limitations and spend the money where it will do the most good and have a reasonable chance of passing legislation. Texas vote was almost unanimous in both houses I beleive only 2 voted against. In the Republic of Texas there are over 17 million people and more than that in Florida. Spending more money in these 2 states made more sense. We are talking 34 to 37 million in population (10% of U.S. Total)which probably means many more NRA members and a bigger bang for the buck.

    Peolple need to be realistic and think things through before they pop off on how the NRA let them down. They simpley put their money into getting better gun laws in states with higher poplulations. Houston alone has at least twice as many people living there than Montana. Probably Miami Dallas and San Antonio have more than Montana. Its a done deal here. be patient your time will come.

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