Trust me! Honesty is STILL the best policy.
This is a discussion on Stopped by police within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; glad i work in the private security and executive business now............... ....... like i said before if i were required to inform the officer performing ...
glad i work in the private security and executive business now...............
....... like i said before if i were required to inform the officer performing the stop i would tell him, i'm not so i dont....
like i also said before it was not ment to offend you and other LEO's on this site............ if i'm doing everything legal and the officer pointed his gun at me while i'm acting legal and have done nothing wrong except the trafic stop my lifes work and my attorneys life work would be spent filing reports and complaints............ you took it as a personal attack and it wasnt, so i appologize to you.....
Last edited by rocky; April 5th, 2007 at 11:29 PM. Reason: deleted disparaging remarks
When the dust settles only the prepared will survive.
NRA LIFE MEMBER
remember the only thing common about common sense is that its not that common
Shoot low boys their riding Shetland ponies.
Trust me! Honesty is STILL the best policy.
I don't/didn't take it as a personal attack, so appology is unnecessary but accepted.
With that said, I do not know of a single officer past his 2nd year that really believes he/she is better than another, just one with different experiences.
My point is and will always be, an officer spotting a weapon on a person has a documented legal precident to self preservation due to the statistical likelyhood that it will be illegally possessed and thus present a threat to the officers life. I am the pro-est gun carry person out there and dumped over $2000 of my own money back when that was a chunck of my annual salary (made $7 and hour back then) to support the passage of the Oklahoma concealed carry law.
This issue dosent come down to a good day/bad day or weither a person's career is better than anothers. It comes down to a single situation. A traffic stop, which is documented as the most deadly activity an officer can conduct.
Folks on here have met me personally and know I dont possess an attitude or feel I'm better than they are, just simply want folks to know the other sides of a traffic stops thought process.
The Supreme Court has rulled on a number of occasions that "officer safety" overrides almost any individual constitutional right once a traffic stop has been initiated, to include searching of a persons vehicle without a warrant (the area immediatly within the reach of the operator - sit in your drivers seat and see what parts of your vehicle you can reach and that is legal for an officer to search without a warrant).
My point is simple, as an officer, with 15 years of patrol experience (20 total) if I stop a vehicle and I spot a weapon or my partner spots a weapon my #1 priority at that point is a known threat. I will not talk about it I will control the situation (a documented proper approach and court tested all the way to the US Supreme Court) until that weapon is secured. Additionally, overwhelmingly weapons in vehicles will not be carried by holders of CCLs but by individuals illegally carrying them. Thus removing the people in the vehicle away from the weapon is appropriate.
If that comes across as an attitude, I appologize, but I will not appologize for legally doing what I need to do to make it home to my wife and kids at the end of my shift.
I do not want this discussion between those of us on here to become a us vs them type, just simply understand that if you choose to not inform the officer (if its legal not to) than its your right by the laws of your state, but also understand that an officer who does not know your legal has every justification to presume (for their safety) that it is in fact illegal.
Personal case.....earlier today I was at the wonderful local Wal-Mart picking up groceries for dinner. While waiting on Gary B to make me up a nice holster for my Browning HP, I was using a Don Hume ITP holster which to me is very uncomfortable (and will be for sale cheap soon). As I left the store, I unconsciously adjusted the pain in my hip and that simple movement was spoted by an on-duty officer walking out of the store behind me (he had been at the bank inside). He immediatly recognized the movement and appropriatly made contact (as I do not appear to be a clean cut officer as Chris can attest to). The first words out of my mouth as he approached me from the rear was to inform him I was on the job and then proceed to prove it. I dont fault him at all, and his approach was perfect.
When we carry, we must realize that for every one of us with a CCL there are two or three carrying without a license. This isnt a ding against any one person just putting it down that if you dont tell them and are spotted (which isnt all that hard) understand and know why you receive the treatment you recive.
"Respect all ... Fear none!!!
I see both sides. I see the side of not telling the officer even more clearly now. Tho I do plan on telling if I get pulled over.
But if the weapon is concealed like it should be, during a normal traffic stop the LEO shouldnt notice it there anyway so there should'nt be a problem. In Ky an officer can punch it in the computer and it tells him if the person has a permit or not. I know this because of a friend who did ride alongs. He said the officer would be behind someone, run his plates and say " that guy has a ccw permit". So if the officer knows I have a permit and he ( or she )wants to know if I'm carrying , they should ask. Or even if they hav'nt run my info yet, he ( or she ) knows there are people with permits in Ky, so he should ask if interested. Seems they would ask at every traffic stop if it was that big of a concern. Are cops in carry states not informed well enough on the subject or not trained how to deal with the situation?
robere not all states allow for the linking of ccl's to license plates. For knowledge would be nice but it requires a specific search to see if a license is valid (much like running a drivers license). I agree that knowing upon approach would be nice, but that isnt always the case. That isnt a matter of being informed or training, its a matter of state laws and equiptment. Heck my former agency still dosent have computers in the patrol cars. Infact most cars in the state of Oklahoma still dont have in car computers.
The only thing I'm trying to get across is if you decide not to tell the officer, and your state does not allow for the linking of CCLs to your license plates that you be prepared and anticipate the actions that can fallow and understand why they will follow. Thats it, nothing more.
"Respect all ... Fear none!!!
...and be sure and pick out a soft spot on the pavement for when your face LANDS on it!
First of all, I would like to address the searching of the vehicle. If I pull someone over for a normal traffic violation, then I only have a right to look into the vehicle. If something illegal is in plain view without me having to enter the vehicle, then I have cause to search your vehicle. I can make you get out and search you, but I can't go and search your center consol, under your seat, glove box, ect. without a warrant or your premisson. If I ask and you tell me no, then thats your right. As LE, I want to respect your rights and be as fair as possible. But as other LE have said, its always in your best interest to tell an officer you're armed. If I pull someone over and they fail to announce they're armed, they better hope I don't see it. Because if I do, you will see the barrel of my pistol, and you will be detained tell we sort things out. I've heard of too many officers being shot doing traffic stops, and Im not going to be another statistic.
If it is such a problem of people not informing ( if they arent required to ), then why dont more states require people to do so? Personally , I dont understand why a state wouldnt require a ccw holder to tell the officer they were carrying.
If I decided I did not want to tell, and the officer held me at gunpoint without asking me if I was carrying, I'd do everything I legally could to see the officer got "informed". Maybe he should have asked.
I will tell an officer if pulled over, just to be on the safe side ( I hope )but I can see both sides. The state makes the law that I dont have to tell. The reason behind it , I really dont understand.
"It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith
All of you "private" guys need to build a bridge...and GET OVER IT!
I think this thread is starting to get a little too heated.
I have stated my position as others have done and I stand by it.
However, I think we all should step back, take a deep breath, and do our best to look at things from the other guy's point of view.
We can all probably learn something if we want to.
fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).
Agree with PaulG. We gotta cool it down.
Florida does not require to inform PD that you are carrying. However, in the event I get stopped, I will inform the officer that I am licensed to carry and have a weapon with me. IMHO is just a mixture of politness and smart tactics. That I might face a cop who is less than friendly to Law Abading CCW owners? Yes. The chances of that happening are slim from what I heard in this board and the comments of LEOs I know.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
I'm not legally required to inform, so like everything else in my life it depends on my current mood.
"Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."