Even the Cops who provide security were disarmed!

Even the Cops who provide security were disarmed!

This is a discussion on Even the Cops who provide security were disarmed! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I really couldn’t believe what I observed and experienced today. Today I took part in an emergency drill. I was supposed to be a patient ...

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Thread: Even the Cops who provide security were disarmed!

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    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    Even the Cops who provide security were disarmed!

    I really couldn’t believe what I observed and experienced today. Today I took part in an emergency drill. I was supposed to be a patient that was exposed to anthrax (along with thousands of others). This test was to see how well they can prescribe treatment for those that contract anthrax before they die.
    What I could not believe is the cops. The cops were all wearing red training guns! Not a single cop was allowed to carry their own weapon inside the center where they were sending everybody. These were not cops in training, they are the real thing! After the exercise, suddenly like magic, they all had their guns back. I asked someone about this and they said that for SAFETY reasons, “no weapons are allowed in the exercise area!” WHAT? Can someone explain this to me? The public was asked to play victims. I said sure, why not, and took part. Security was good, except for the fact the cops had nothing, and I mean NOTHING to respond to a real security issue. This drill was to test a response to a terrorist attack with anthrax. Wow, can you imagine of the terrorist decided to attack this test? No one would have been able to shoot the guy. Well, okay I might have been – concealed does mean concealed! Was walking around 10 or so cops, every last one unarmed, and not one had a clue I was.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.


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    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    most cops would rather have a new pen than a new gun , this fosters a similar attitude to that the military has in that the individual cannot be trusted at all times with a loaded firearm ( think square ranges , and strict show unloaded protocalls ) . You cannot make someone learn beyond their interest nor can you mandate compentance . What you can do is change the rules so that the inept have less chance of hurting anyone . As a side note , the info the officers got was likely different from what you had , they likely ( in the course of the drill ) belived there may well be terrorists that they may need to arrest/shoot . ergo the training sidearms ... no one gets shot that way .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
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    They had their backups, concealed as you did, I'm sure.

    During training excercises that involve firearms the weapons used in training are replaced with dummies to prevent accidents. Many police academies do exactly the same thing, even the instructors aren't allowed weapons in certain areas.

    It's the same as IDPA/IPSC groups that run cold ranges. Having one person with a gun going about their daily business is one thing, having 30 people handling guns all in the same space is another.

    It really wasn't as weird as it seemed. My only concern would be whether YOU broke the law in some manner.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

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    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    In New Hampshire, I could have only been asked to leave. As a patient we were told to specifically NOT act out in any manner, as this was not part of the process. We were told it was to test the set up only, can they process me through the system fast. After going through the system I realized it was kind of like when you have to decontaminate someone. Run them in one end, and out there other as fast as possible. We were all briefed before hand, and told "there are no suprises"... what I was told doesn't add up to why the police officers were indeed disarmed. This wasn't a "closed" environment. I was John Doe Public... and John Doe true criminal could just have easily been there.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

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    Perhaps the administration was hoping that real terrorists would only have the 'blue' traning guns...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tanksoldier View Post
    Many police academies do exactly the same thing, even the instructors aren't allowed weapons in certain areas.
    Our local police/fire academy put this rule in after a ND or 2 in the class rooms, all LEO. Beileve it or not most police officers are not "Gun people" like you and I.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

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    If it is an NBC drill, probably they were using dummy weapons in case they had to decon/deal with infected people? (less problems if you put all the contaminated gear in BIO WASTE bags to latter find out someone stole all the real guns - since it was training, and maybe the first for all involved, it sounds like a good idea to not have real firearms in the mix; or imagine someone screaming "I got antrax!" runs out in the middle of the exercise, a cop freaks out and pulls his firearm and shoots the poor role player - mayor lawsuit + jail time for something that was supposed to be a learning experience).

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    Unhappy Most ADMIN cops are not gun folks for sure....same goes for the younger guys...

    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Our local police/fire academy put this rule in after a ND or 2 in the class rooms, all LEO. Beileve it or not most police officers are not "Gun people" like you and I.
    LOL, The most recent Chief of Police in my home town had a problem with UD's (UNintentional Discharges -- nothing accidental trigger pulled gun goes BANG). Once he was in his private office bathroom and capped off a round into the toilet. Another time he was at a BALLY GYM. Left his carry piece in a locker while he worked out. Redressing, he tried to also safely reholster and managed to cap off TWO rounds directly into the locker! The locker died instantly, although there were no other injuries. This guy was a real loser. He finally resigned after his own troops gave him a vote of "no confidence" then he came right back aboard as a "consultant" and quadrupled his old salary! Go figure. This bozo was as anti-gun as the day is long. I guess he figured if HE couldn't be "safe" nobody could!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    You got it Ex. Laws and procedures are put in place with the lowest common denominator in mind. The rest of us are supposed to do without, so the idiots won't have accidents.
    When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    most cops would rather have a new pen than a new gun , this fosters a similar attitude to that the military has in that the individual cannot be trusted at all times with a loaded firearm ( think square ranges , and strict show unloaded protocalls ) . You cannot make someone learn beyond their interest nor can you mandate compentance . What you can do is change the rules so that the inept have less chance of hurting anyone . As a side note , the info the officers got was likely different from what you had , they likely ( in the course of the drill ) belived there may well be terrorists that they may need to arrest/shoot . ergo the training sidearms ... no one gets shot that way .
    Actually you can mandate competance. Businesses do it all day long...They(Military/LE) choose not to. They can mandate it and anyone that doesn't pass the grade say...twice...show 'em the door. Harsh? No. If you can't trust someone with a gun when you're not looking and controlling every action...You shouldn't be giving them one in the first place. Same thing with interest too. If they are in said chosen profession and show that they don't have their full interest and attention in said job, clearly they don't care to begin with...cut the string and get them out before they injure themselves or someone else. I almost wonder what it would be like if all our LE agencies were run by civilian organizations, IE Businesses with a bottom dollar to lose rather than a full coffer of tax payer dollars.

    It's really a simple concept. If your own people don't trust you with a gun, why should us lowly civilians? Sorry if I'm coming across harsh. I'm not directing this at anyone specific here. I guess I'm just becoming a bit rigid in the realities of life and can't stand bad work ethics.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Our local police/fire academy put this rule in after a ND or 2 in the class rooms, all LEO. Beileve it or not most police officers are not "Gun people" like you and I.
    This is one of the big issues I have with LE in general. Sorry, I'm on a roll tonight. Ok, so I hire someone to come work on my home. He says he's a carpenter, has a biz card that says he's a carpenter, has insurance for his carpenter business and shows up with tool box, etc... I expect to be able to hand him a hammer and watch him get to work. I don't expect to hand him a hammer and hear him say "what do I do with this?".. As much as we don't like it and as unfortunate as it is, carrying and potentially using a firearm is part of the job in LAW ENFORCEMENT. If you don't care to learn to use it safely and properly and learn how it works, get out of LE. If you're the guy or gal in charge of training and it appears your trainees don't have the interest...sit them down, have the talk, and see what happens. If they don't get the interest, and/or don't care...cut the fat.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Wink Actually....

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Actually you can mandate competance. Businesses do it all day long...They(Military/LE) choose not to. They can mandate it and anyone that doesn't pass the grade say...twice...show 'em the door. Harsh? No. If you can't trust someone with a gun when you're not looking and controlling every action...You shouldn't be giving them one in the first place.
    Actually that is the LAW in all the SpecOps outfits. Delta had one during Somalia. Back in the rear area in that excruciatingly HOT warehouse, one of their guys had an A.D. with an M4. He was shown the door that day. It also doesn't matter if you've been in the outfit for decades. One time if your weapon goes hot unintentionally and you are OUT. I found out about this via my buddy who was one of the officers responsible for running the seaport operation and also his guys were in charge of perimeter security for the "D-Boy" compound. If you saw the movie "BlackHawk Down" you might remember an encounter between a STRAC Ranger 0-3 and one of those laid back "Operators" because the Delta guy was running around the warehouse with one in the chamber and his safety in the OFF position. That incident was responsible for the scene in the movie.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    I had not even thought about the classrooms of the police/fire academy being "posted" until today since I have not been out there since getting my permit and this is not one of my favorite training academies for other various reasons.

    Just remember, you may be able to mandate training if you wish but you can never mandate desire and enjoyment.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

    -James Earl Jones

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    ~sigh~

    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    As much as we don't like it and as unfortunate as it is, carrying and potentially using a firearm is part of the job in LAW ENFORCEMENT. If you don't care to learn to use it safely and properly and learn how it works, get out of LE.
    Unfortunately, the way most big city cops GET to be cops is this: A person (male or female) goes to the county employment office and peruses the "NOW HIRING" ads on a bulletin board. They run down the job requirements and the salary and the perks (gee you get to take the PATROL car home) and the health insurance....and they say: "Hey this looks pretty GOOD! What job is it for? Cop? I can do that!"

    That's that. Little boys no longer grow up wanting to put the BG's in jail or ride off into the sunset with the fair maiden.

    As far as their attitudes of FIREARMS, well, they are programmed mind numbed victims of the public schools.

    That's why most weapons qual courses for LEOs are now PASS/FAIL. You don't want a hungry legal shark issuing a subpoena for all firearms skill records after a cop has shot a "poor neighborhood boy"...and come to find out that said officer only BARELY passed his shooting quals. That's a losing recipe for any lawsuit to begin with.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Actually that is the LAW in all the SpecOps outfits. Delta had one during Somalia. Back in the rear area in that excruciatingly HOT warehouse, one of their guys had an A.D. with an M4. He was shown the door that day. It also doesn't matter if you've been in the outfit for decades. One time if your weapon goes hot unintentionally and you are OUT. I found out about this via my buddy who was one of the officers responsible for running the seaport operation and also his guys were in charge of perimeter security for the "D-Boy" compound. If you saw the movie "BlackHawk Down" you might remember an encounter between a STRAC Ranger 0-3 and one of those laid back "Operators" because the Delta guy was running around the warehouse with one in the chamber and his safety in the OFF position. That incident was responsible for the scene in the movie.
    I guess that's why they call them special and why they get my utmost respect. Although one ND is a bit harsh even for my standards IF no one was injured. Personally I would rather see them get ripped a new one first and put on prob and make them run drills for the next 3 months before putting them back on duty. Then any more issues or even an attitude and show em the door with no excuses. It's good to know some still have clear heads.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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