Chris....I feel for you, I've gotten into a "debate" of sorts with some moron:
This is a discussion on how to counter this anti-gun argument? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My families hearts and prayers/wishes go out to all those touched by this terrible event. In July 1983 Billy Ferry (a known "WACK JOB" in ...
My families hearts and prayers/wishes go out to all those touched by this terrible event.
In July 1983 Billy Ferry (a known "WACK JOB" in the neighbohood) Killed 5 people Mutilated 13 others at a Winn Dixie grocery store in a quiet shopping plaza in Tampa Fl.
Because of "WEAK" laws, no "BACKGROUND CHECKS", and "EASY" access to his weapons he was able to destroy the lives of 18 people and their families and friends.
However, he brought no AK-47's, AR-15's, High Cap. Magazines, High power auto loading hand guns or wear a bullet proof vest. What he did bring was a few gallons of gasoline, matches, and ANGER!!!
This "MADMAN" threw the gasoline across the check out lanes and light a match..... MANY DIED AND MANY MORE WERE HORRIBLY BURNED & DISFIGURED.
YOU CANNOT KEEP A SOCIOPATH FROM WEAPONS OF MAYHEM AND MASS MURDER.... ALL YOU CAN DO IS BE AWARE AND BE READY TO STOP THEM WHEN THEY ATTEMPT TO STRIKE OR ATLEAST MINIMIZE THE NUMBERS THEY MURDER
Angry people (I use the term loosely) have and will used cars, gasoline, improvised bombs (Oklahoma), bottles of poisened over the counter medicines, and to many other methods to list.
OUR ONLY HOPE IS IN VIGILENCE, PREPARATION, AND DETERMINATION NOT TO LET THEM CONTINUE
Condition "yellow" is a heightened state of awareness & response.
It is not paranoia...
"IT IS YOUR ONLY ROUTE TO SURVIVAL"
An armed & knowledgeble Citizen has significantly increased their chances of continued Freedom & Safety... SO ALSO IMPROVED IS THE FUTURE OF THEIR NEIGHBORS
Chris....I feel for you, I've gotten into a "debate" of sorts with some moron:
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
Julio Gonzalez (87) Cuban born Gonzalez came to the United States in the 1980 Mariel boat lift. Ten years later, in a fit of jealousy, he killed eighty-seven partiers. Pi**ed off at his ex-girlfriend, Lydia Feliciano, who was dancing with someone else, Julio bought a buck's worth of gasoline and torched the Bronx's Happy Land Social Club killing nearly everyone inside. Only six survived. As luck would have it, one of them was lucky Lydia, his ex-girlfriend.
You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
When we go into combat, we take a gun. Not gasoline , fertilizer or medicine. It is the best way to take lives person to person, period.
"All men are not created equal. Sam Colt made 'em that way."
Guns have been called the great equalizer. They allow individuals to defend themselves from the tyranny of force and violence as they would not otherwise be capable.
Without them, power is in the hands of those individuals or groups with greater physical strength. Women are chattel, the slight are slaves to the strong. Gangs rule. Civil servants are civil masters. There is no check on the power of a despot.
Getting rid of guns would not get rid of the power of force and violence, but rather concentrate that power in the hands of those with the greatest potential to abuse it.
"We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters
Criminal still get guns in the UK where private ownership of handguns is almost impossible. Even their Olympic pistol team has to practice outside the UK... yet crimes committed with firearms have increased since the ban.
Criminals will ALWAYS be able to get guns no matter what the law says... here, Europe, wherever.
"I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.
It does not matter!
There is no way to abolish all guns and therefore all the good people need to carry one, or two.
Is your sister intelligent enough to understand that there is no way to abolish all guns?
"She wants all guns abolished"
I want to keep my loved ones safe!
If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.
"Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."
Yes, currently the most effective weapon on the planet in the vast majority of situations is the gun. But, in this case, banning the most effective weapon in favor of a lesser weapon is an answer that implies an unrealistic assumption. That assumption is that banning possession of an item will make it impossible for people to get it.
As was already pointed out, a good analogy is the drug trade. Legitimate gun sales to people who then comit crimes would vanish, this is true, but black-market or other illegal sales would quickly take their place. If your goal is fewer legal guns, this doesn't matter, but if your goal is truly fewer guns total in the hands of criminals, banning them is probably counter-productive.
As was also pointed out, another assumption is that banning the most effective weapon would have more good consequences than bad. Guns are an equalizer that gives power to those who otherwise would not have it (like the wheelchair-bound grandmother). Taking that power away (even if we go into fantasy-land and assume that the BG's will give up theirs too) will only widen the gap between every-day citizens and those who prey on them.
How about, "That's a good idea. How do we get the criminals to go along with it?"
As much as I like guns, I'd rather not need them. I'd rather not need locks on my doors or a police force or a military. We ought to eliminate crime first.
"and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"
WARNING - The below thoughts will NOT make you popular or understood in your support of the Second Amendment.
There is NO argument with someone who comes to a belief out of fear -- and fear is contagious. Yes it is true a gun can kill and wound faster than an ax or knife -- but we have also seen people make bombs out of fertilizer and do much more damage.
Maybe the answer is to confidently teach people to defend themselves. If indeed the people at the scene had abdicated their rights to self protection with a firearm, and no one except the police was carrying -- it is sure the perp was able to move and shoot without resistance.
Now can we, as taxpayers, afford to put a policeman (defense gunman) in every school building and public facility to guard against people with guns, axes and knives?
It may seem calous, but what if there were other students carrying arms who had been trained to protect themselved and thjeir peers as the second amendment contemplated? It is possible the mayhem would have ended sooner -- BUT -- just as with an axe, knife, gasoline or a bomb -- no one could preclude (in a free society)
this type or irrational act. One could only conclude it with an outcome that was not as inclusive IF guns were used. Bombs and Gas????
I find it interesting that one teacher had spotted the trend in the individual toward irrational thought -- but could not get any action in a second look at him by mental health authorities.
If the teachers and profs or students had generally been armed -- would the individual have wide ranged before a response? Interesting too is that he took his own life -- and was not dealt with by uniformed armed response by law enforcement who was away investigating the first two killings.
That is not to blame them -- it is a realization that lawmen cannot do it all -- cannot be everywhere and citizens MUST take responsibility for some of their own safety. It is horrendous that so many innocents were killed -- and had NO response except flight - with the one lone exception.
That exception - was a man who survived the dissarming of citizens by the Nazis, survived the camps and knew that if he did not give his unarmed students the chance to flee they would not survive. His is the sacrifice those who oppose an armed citizenry should consider.
As I put it to some others on another, unrelated board that I frequent:
Those that would have me disarm fear not me or my gun, but my ability to set myself apart from the rest by being able to fight back.
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want in ... And how many want out." British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Rodc13...chattel, despot? Bob The Great...I am obviously not for a ban on guns, but at the same time I dont believe we should deny that the primary purpose of the guns we carry, that is to kill. I have chosen to bear the responsibilty of CC and I take it seriously.
I agree with Chmara, it seems as though many people today cry foul when the "authorities" fail to do enough to protect us. The burden has been shifted from the individual to the civil/federal gov't. Personal responsibilty is avoided at all cost...strange.