CCH may not have helped

This is a discussion on CCH may not have helped within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Personally, I think the best thing to do in such a situation is what others really did at VT: stay in your classroom and work ...

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Thread: CCH may not have helped

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    Personally, I think the best thing to do in such a situation is what others really did at VT: stay in your classroom and work with the people in that room to keep the shooter out. Ideally, at least a couple of people in each room would have been armed. There simply wasn't any way to stop him from getting in the first classroom and shooting the prof: he had the element of surprise. However, after that, some CCW holders in that room should have been able to draw and fire on him. Failing that, he should have been stopped by people in the next room, because he no longer had any element of surprise.

    The Israeli model definitely seems like the best. Does anyone have any good links to read more about how they handle security in their schools?

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I don't believe that there is a best answer.

    Go help? Stay put and help?

    It's your call. JUST BE DECISIVE! What ever you choose to do, give it all your energy.

    There will ALWAYS be those who with 20/20 hindsight will second guess you.

    Remember, we are all the good guys and gals. The shooter (I refuse to use his name - that's what he wants) is the pond scum.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  4. #33
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    I believe if the teacher that held the door closed and was killed had had a gun, he would have had a good chance at killing this sicko.. The teacher was shot through the door. The tacher could have done the same and I feel he would have done what he could to shoot the guy. A teacher would be more likely to confront the scumbag to protect the students. Students may be more prone to run if they have a chance.
    In a college there are lots of peole under the age of 21 that cant carry. Most colleges are very liberal, so its hard to say how many college students would have actually been carrying in the rooms the shootings took place in.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Imagine this headline instead: "Violent gunman kills two before being shot by armed student/professor." Bad, yes. Infinitely better then what actually happened? Certainly.
    OPFOR, That would not have been the headline.


    It would have been something like " Gun nut kills sick man with a history of mental Diseas" or "White man kills poor south Korean immigrant"
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    No matter how much armchair quaterbacking we do you will never know what you will do till the brown stuff is flying at the fan and the bullets are flying

    Don't kid yourself you do

    Sure i think i would help if i could but do carry for me and mine but i wont know what ill do till im in the middle of it

    To say other wise is to lie to yourself

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy View Post
    OPFOR, That would not have been the headline.


    It would have been something like " Gun nut kills sick man with a history of mental Diseas" or "White man kills poor south Korean immigrant"
    Sounds like the perfect PC headline

    Bud while I would agree with you in principal, I would have to say that there are enough people here who have probally seen either combat or been in life threatening situations and therefore could estimate their response to such a situtation accurately. However, every situation is different, so maybe I am just wrong.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I agree with OPFOR and ELcruiser

    But how do we change the mindset? John Wayne is dead who do we get as or spokesman or woman. Who can tell America that we need to grow up as a country and realize that we a responsible for our on safety.
    Ok, I've had a wound up pain of a week and this stuff has wound me up more and now I'm going to unwind a little!

    We will never change this attitude over night or even in the short term. It was a long time developing and it will take a long time to change. It will mean literally changing the attitudes of entire generations. Impossible you say? BS. Read history. It was a minority of Americans who decided to break from the British Empire. The Mongols started small in number and darn near conquered the known world. I can go on and on.

    How do we start something like this? First in our own homes and families. The liberals took over the educational system slowly but now shape entire generations of thinking. We have to be very, very involved in raising and shaping our children. We have to be willing to try to effect their friends. We have to stand for what is right in our areas of influence. There are no free rides in this life, everything we do has an effect around us whether we like it or not. I thank God I raised a young man to adulthood who is a moral, high work ethic, self sufficient man who expects no one else to care for or protect him. It takes hard work and that most unpopular word today, sacrifice!

    We in the world today are becoming morally weak, consumed with personal gratification and entertainment. I don't hate the USA, I love my country but I left it for over a decade and was shocked by what I found when I returned. The only way to reclaim a culture is to realise the profound effect we can have as individuals if we try. I've discovered that literally every facet of your life has an impact, like it or not. If you are appalled by the rise in sex crimes, especially against children try talking to a sex crimes investigator. I've talked to three of them and they will tell you of the direct link between the rise of porn and attacks. So if you put one dollar into porn you support the industry and it's attendant nightmares. If you use dope, you directly contribute to narco terrorist organizations, no free ride. If you pay your money to listen to hip hop or rap culture items you think that stuff doesn't effect the youth of today? You might say, it doesn't effect me. Bull, everything we put into our brains effects us and some it sends over the edge. But if your dollars support it you are part of the problem. When enough individuals elect to act in this fashion the industry goes broke and that part of the problem goes away.

    So people say, it won't make enough difference since we're too few. Well, got to start somewhere don't you? I've discovered that when you train for self defense and live an upright life it will cost you. Many people will avoid you because you're scary or no longer fun. But I've also seen what happens when it all hits the fan and suddenly those people look to you for help because they figure you're the best chance they've got. That moment of crisis or disaster will be the life changing, eye opening moment when you can make them see their need to change. I've seen it happen many times. Then they begin to effect the world around them and on and on. If we all act accordingly we begin a small change that can move expotentially or we can all sit on our complacent, whining butts and watch the culture and country go down the proverbial tube.

    You don't get to ride the fence, that's the same as sitting in the enemies camp and will get barbed wire stuck in your butt to boot. You want to be thrilled by violent, immoral entertainment and culture. You want to support industries that are violently opposed to self defense and moral standards then you get what we got. But if you pay the price to stand up for what is right you can begin opening a set of eyes here and there, and then they do the same, and on and on. Then one day suddenly the politicians discover they can't peddle this pap and keep their jobs. Criminals discover it's mighty unhealthy to attack people and may have to consider other ways of life. Mass murderers discover that their plans are cut very short because people will not sit and be victims and have the fortitude and means to defend themselves. But you have to pick a side and if you choose you have to be prepared for the long and at times, unpopular, haul. It's only our future we have at stake.

    Being a person of strong principles will never win you any popularity contests but it will make people around you think. We were at a party a while back and they drug out the dreaded "ice breaker" stuff that I hate. Everyone had to write on a piece of paper what they thought of each person then they were read out. People were called life of the party, fun, funny, a good sports buddy, etc. Then it came to me. Focused, dependable, careful, diligent. These same people don't really ever get close to me unless they've suddenly got real troubles then they want advice or help. Then they begin to examine their own lives.

    Don't let popular culture define you, you define yourself and stand for what is right and then try to keep passing it on. Enough people do this and the mindset, the culture and the politicians will change. When this changes I truly believe that the days of school shootings, mass murder and a host of other sicknesses and blights on our society will decline and fall. If these changes never come than we face the same fate as Rome I fear.

    Mods, if I've unwound and blown off too much steam feel free to get rid of this but I needed a place to "cut loose". Sorry
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  9. #38
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    yep........

  10. #39
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by obxned View Post
    Sometimes you have a moral obligation to help strangers.

    Could you really live with yourself if you stood idly by while all those people were murdered?
    No, I couldn't.

  11. #40
    Member Array stolivar's Avatar
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    UNTIL

    Until You have ever pulled a trigger on another human being, you would not know what you would do. Some of us that has been in that situation as in war, know what they would do.... You never know until you have been truly tested.



    steve

  12. #41
    Member Array Omni's Avatar
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    It seems to me that universities and colleges today are churning out many passive, cowardly, over-sensitive individuals that wouldn't and couldn't defend themselves even if you gave them an AK-47 and a sack of grenades.

    I find it amazing that a single skinny nutjob with a pistol could walk into classroom after classroom full of young heathy individuals and not get his head ripped off. Once the shooting started everyone must have understood they were in danger, and yet the only person that I have heard of that didn't bail out or turtle was an octagenarian holocaust survivor. That's just sad!

    Oh well....
    "Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities... because it is the quality which guarantees all others." -- Winston Churchill

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