Kids, it's OK to fight back

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Thread: Kids, it's OK to fight back

  1. #1
    Member Array Whirlwind06's Avatar
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    Kids, it's OK to fight back

    Some people will blame the guns, perpetuating the rank falsehood that the right combination of laws will somehow protect us from people who don't give a damn about laws. A torrent of posthumous psychoanalysis will seek to explain the murderer, whose last bullet spared him the trouble of explaining himself.
    You can't live your life in fear, but you can't live it complacently, either. So, three pieces of fatherly advice:

    1) Be aware of your surroundings. Have some idea of what you would do or how you would get away if an emergency arose. Don't dwell on it; just train yourself to give it a quick thought now and then.

    2) In an emergency, don't let yourself be paralyzed by fear. Act if you can, and do it early, if possible. Run away. If you can't run away, hide. If you can't hide, enlist the help of others, make a plan and fight back. I don't see how being passive helps in these situations.

    3) Put your faith in God and live your beliefs. In this life, no one is completely safe. The only real safety is found in God, and that safety is eternal. That's a better deal than anything you'll get here. Believers should find comfort in that, and we are believers.

    What you tell your kids is up to you, but if mine were ever in that situation, I'd want them on their feet, resisting evil, not on their knees for a madman's sick gratification.
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    It is refreshing to see some voices of reason out there in MSM.

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    Member Array Hagphish's Avatar
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    I agree with everything but the last sentence in the last quote. It is not easy to stand and fight when you are in the fragile shell of flesh with no weapon, and your attacker has fire power.

    I often think about different situations and how I would react to them should they arise. The other day I came home to a house that had been ravaged by my brothers stir crazy dog. When I walked in it appeared that someone had broken into my home. I immediately put my hand on my strong side and felt the comfort of the Kahr P9. After I had walked through the house and put two and two together, I pulled out my pistol, aimed it at an inanimate object, and noticed how jittery I was. It did not comfort me to know that I was that nervous when "**** hit the fan".
    I'm married to my Kahr.

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    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    It is refreshing to see some voices of reason out there in MSM.
    I agree!

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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    I do not mean to take away from the idea of a gun being a weapon of protection, but let's not think of it as the only weapon available. I agree with the idea that I want my kid to run away or hide, if possible. However, if that is not possible, one should definitely fight back. Just because he has a gun and you do not does not mean that you can not fight and win. At VT there were 32 innocent losses and many more that were injured. Was it because nobody there had a gun to defend themselves, or was it because not enough of the victims fought back?

    As I see it, we as a "society" are now taught to be docile and give the BG what he wants rather than fight back. In that way we "should" be saved from bodily harm. Well, not in cases like this!

    As we all know, our primary weapon is between our ears and the gun is just a tool to be used. There are many other weapons available to us and we MUST be prepared to use what is available and not rely on a gun that we may or may not have available to us at the time.

    How many fewer casualties would there have been at VT, if after the first shot, the shooter had 25 text books hitting him in the face?

    How many fewer casualties would there have been if after the first shot the shooter was rushed by 25 college students bent on stopping him?

    Please don't get me wrong, I think it would be great if permit holders were allowed to carry anyplace they go, but I see the problem here as being one of attitude and not one of available tools. You could have a primary AND two backups, but unless you have the mindset to use them they do you no good. Likewise you could have no gun at all, but with the right mindset you still have defensive weapons to use and limit the loss of life.

    What weapons were available to the victims? Books, chairs, desks, laptop computers, yes even little MP3 players.... ANYTHING THAT CAN BE THROWN (when was the last time you tried to aim and fire a pistol while being hit in the nose by a 2 1/2 lb hard cover text book?). Not to mention 25 adult sized bodies.

    I am not saying that the right mindset would have eliminated any loss, but it sure would have minimized it.

    Sorry, I didn't mean to "rant", but I just get so worked up when I see something like this that was a result of what I consider "poor mindset"! I have a 4 y.o. daughter and you can bet $$ that as she is growing up she will learn to take care of herself and not to give in and accept whatever a BG wants!

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    Senior Member Array Steve48's Avatar
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    I just could not have sat there and watch it happen. Steve48

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    +1. That to me is the takeaway from this shooting. If attacked, do something! Run or hide if possible. Attack if neither of those are possible with any weapon available including your body.

    While some ran and a few tried to block doors, it appears to me that most went to ground when all that did was make them sitting targets.

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I just don't understand this. Any action would have been better than inaction.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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    Member Array Hagphish's Avatar
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    That is a very easy position to take. I don't completely disagree, but saying you would do "something" and actualy taking action are two seperate things. It sounds like this piece of human dumpster juice actually had good aim and was fairly accurate. What are the chances of you taking one between the eyes while attempting to throw a book at 40MPH at this *******'s head?

    We can't blame anyone for the deaths except for the ******* behind the trigger.

    It is very easy to say you would be a hero. Until you are actually faced with a threat, you don't know EXACTLY how you would react.
    I'm married to my Kahr.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hagphish View Post
    That is a very easy position to take. I don't completely disagree, but saying you would do "something" and actualy taking action are two seperate things. It sounds like this piece of human dumpster juice actually had good aim and was fairly accurate. What are the chances of you taking one between the eyes while attempting to throw a book at 40MPH at this *******'s head?

    We can't blame anyone for the deaths except for the ******* behind the trigger.

    It is very easy to say you would be a hero. Until you are actually faced with a threat, you don't know EXACTLY how you would react.
    If 30 people would attack the shooter simultaneously, they would stop him. But think about how difficult it would be to organize such an attack seconds after realizing that the dung head is shooting. . .almost impossible unless you have people who have trained for such an attack.

    Imagine if everyone was trained to immediately attack a shooter at the get go. Obviously, some would die but so would the shooter and not at his own hand either.

    Here is where the rub comes in: the first few to move on the shooter will most likely die. It takes a special person to launch an attack purely to save others while knowing he will die.

    The engineering professor is one of these special people.

    This is where we should educate our kids. Fight to survive but if you must die, go out fighting!!
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

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    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Yes, I am not saying that I would "be a hero". However, if somebody came in to a classroom with only one door and started shooting I would attack regardless of what I do or do not have to attack with. I would do this, not to be a hero, but because I am already dead if I don't.

    Would I still be dead in the end? Maybe, but at least I woudl have had a chance that I would not have had if all I did was kneel down and cower.

  12. #11
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    What does one expect ?

    A school bully walks across the playground and slaps another kid. A fight ensues. Both are suspended.

    We are teaching our kids to be victims. Is it any wonder that most cowered in fear and did nothing ? They acted they way that they have been trained. Nothing more,nothing less.

    Its been said that the shooter the other day spent plenty of time reloading magazines. If just ONE person had seen that and had the balls to act, many lives could have been saved.

    Instead, some nutcase kills 32 people and does it unmolested.

    Incredible.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    Is it an age thing or a generational thing?

    If you read the exert I posted in http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ad.php?t=23808
    You see that it was an older man the said "I have to do something" a man from the WWII generation that unsuccessfully charged Hennard.

    I have not seen a list of the ages of the victims but my guess is it will average 20. They made a big deal (which it is) about an old man that survived the Nazi Death Camps lost his life Monday defending his students.

    Kids are kids and yes I know that 18 year olds are dieing and saving strangers daily in Iraq, but my soldiers are a different breed. These kids were college students, some of them I bet were afraid to ask out a girl so can we expect them to rush a shooter?

    We may find out that many students did just that but as of right now it does not appear they did much other than cower, (and I am not blaming them).

    My question is have times and values changed?

    I suspect it is a little of both an age and a generational thing. When Pearl Harbor happened 100,000s of men rushed to enlist to protect this country, when 9/11 happened 1 guy quit his million dollar a year football job to go to protect this country (I am sure there were more but not alot). What made the WWII generation be willing to lay down their lives for others but todays generation refuse to do so?

    If the victims died by just allowing the gunman to kill them and did not try to rush the shooter was it because of their age or their generation?

    Please don't think I am being unfeeling to the dead and I can not guarantee I would have done much different I only hope and pray I would have.
    Timmy Jimmy

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    FJC
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    Great editorial, thanks for posting the link.

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    great link, and I totally agree

    our kids need to be taught that evil exists, you can fight, you do not have to depend on the gov't to protect you

    I look forward to the day I get to teach my son about defending himself and that anything can be made into a weapon.
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