Will it make a difference

This is a discussion on Will it make a difference within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; as much as I'd like it to go with the optimistic of the bunch. I'd have to say i agree with QK. this last shooting ...

View Poll Results: 2 Years from now will gun laws be more or less restrictive because of VA Tech

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  • We will have more restrictive gun laws

    38 28.79%
  • We will have less restrictive gun laws

    37 28.03%
  • It will make no difference

    57 43.18%
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Thread: Will it make a difference

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array downrange's Avatar
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    as much as I'd like it to go with the optimistic of the bunch. I'd have to say i agree with QK. this last shooting is only going to rival the already "scared bunch". i had a "religious pair" come to my house around noon today - seriously, no bulls@#t - using the shooting as reason to give me pamphlets. i haven't had "a visit' in years. it started out as the decrease in morals today in this country, but for reasons i don't want to get into right now, i had my XD on my hip, i always do. needless to say it was a short conversation and the pamphlets went into the trash. i thought it funny but actually comforting that they didn't bat an eye at my piece and even said i was one of many that said if guns weren't banned schools, it could have ended faster.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    When the smoke finally clears, I see this as a catalyst and a wake up call to more gun rights. I think that people who have been on the fence or just over it have seen something here that they hadn't yet understood. I think the big key in this whole mess is the fact that the PD were ALREADY on scene and 30 people STILL got killed by this guy. The images of theses people barring the doors with tables to keep him out have already gotten the general public thinking. They are thining "FIGHT BACK!". I see a shifting in the paradigm coming soon.

    I 100% disagree with the entire philosophy of changing the background check. This kid went to an institution voluntarily. He was not forced to go nor was he committed in lieu of his own free will. Reagrdless of his past, his attitude, his philosophy, his writing, what have you, he was perfectly within the law to buy and own a firearm. That's already been gone over. I've heard the complaints already from people that he should not have had access to a gun because of his "mental problems". I've heard all the complaints and issues regarding why this kid was never "taken care of". There is a very simple fact that a lot of people don't seem to understand.....

    CRAZY IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!

    This kid was a freakin nut! Plain and simple. He did things and thought things that no normal human being would probably even consider. But he never broke the law! Being a nutcase is not against the law. People had made complaints and the PD checked them out. There was nothing they could have done or should have done because he didnt break the law. The background check came up clean because there was nothing there to find. It worked the way it was designed to work.

    Please do not start going down this road. It's a place you do not want to go!
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    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    I think we will see fewer 'unarmed victim' zones.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

  5. #19
    Member Array Sam Douthit's Avatar
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    I believe that people are not as stupid as the left conceives. The elite left wingers don't think anyone other than those with socialist credentials have the intellect to own anything dangerous like a gun. They can own a car or a stepladder or a swimming pool but not a gun. All of the things I mentioned have killed more folks than guns but then that is logic. If John Lott can do research showing the number of lives saved by guns and the possession of guns by good people then why don't these left wing folks get it? I read the stories about the armed citizen every month in the Rifleman and it is plain to me that a gun is a friend at times. Then again my degrees are in engineering and political science. I don't have an education degree.
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  6. #20
    Member Array MnemonicMonkey's Avatar
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    "It will make no difference"

    If/when laws are passed it will be because of the liberals voted into office. They may use this incident as leverage, but frankly I was expecting a change before all this happened.
    "Lord, help me to be the person my dog thinks I am."

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    It's just a jumping off point for the marxists. They were going to hammer on gun control without this. They are just going to use anything as an excuse.
    Last edited by Dakotaranger; April 20th, 2007 at 03:09 AM.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    I voted "no difference". I don't really see any one incident being used as a club to push anything through, either for or against more control.

    If I had to go one way or the other, I'd say less control. The reasons are many, but this article is one of them, and it gives me hope: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/...rol/index.html

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  9. #23
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure, so I'm going to abstain from voting for now. There should be an option for "I don't know".

    I have noticed that in all the online polls conducted by the news organizations recently, the majority of those polled voted against increased gun control. I think that's rather telling.

    I do think if the Democrats try to bring it up before the election, it'll cost them the '08 election. If they're smart, they'll emulate Senator Webb (D) from Virginia who's outspokenly pro-gun, and only fight the Republicans on unrelated issues like the Iraq War, cronyism, etc. It'd be even more interesting if Sen. McCain got the Republican nomination, since he gets an F- from the GOA and has voted for many gun-control measures.

  10. #24
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    I voted "less restrictive". As others stated above I have heard it being discussed (for the first time ever- at least for me) that concealed carry should be allowed in colleges, that teachers should be armed, that we need more guns to combat these kinds of attacks. The Democrats are pretty much split on coming out in favor of more gun control. A visit to CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC show that even they are soft compared to their usual rhetoric. I think people are getting tired of this kind of thing and are about to start saying "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" regarding gun control.

    I may be overly optomistic on this, which I'm usually not, but if you listen/read closely I think you will see some definite signs "softening" on gun control comments....
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  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Given the socialist climate in this country, I say more. I hope I'm proven wrong.

  12. #26
    Member Array Whirlwind06's Avatar
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    I voted more restrictive. I see 3 things that could happen maybe 4:

    1) Hi Cap ban - at the very least there will be a ban on any mag that extends past the grip of a pistol.

    2) Hollow point ammo ban - this guy used JHP. So they must be bad.

    3) "Gun show loophole" closed - they have been hammering on this one for a while.

    4) Maybe a expanded back ground check.


    The Antis will push for a lot more and this will be the "compromise" bill that is pasted.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Less restrictive. Common sense will win at some point. *hopes*
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gddyup View Post
    CRAZY IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW!!
    Your right, crazy is not against the law. But neither is being a minor, and a 12 year old can't go get a gun on their own.

    If someone lies on form 4473 in order to purchase a firearm, they have broken the law, even though being crazy isn't against the law. I personally think that the NICS check is a good thing, but could be made better if "all" the information that is to be reported and put into the system was done so in a timely fashion. And if there was a way for people in the medical profession to get info on folks like Cho into the NICS system, or local PD's to enter it on people when they are picked up for spousal abuse or other violent offenses then the system would work like intended and the innocent people would benefit.

    I would love to hear the arguement that it is a good thing for people with serious mental problems or histories of violence to own firearms.

    That is kind of like saying that people who are legally blind should be allowed pilot licenses or drivers licenses, I am pretty sure we can all agree that we don't want blind people driving.

    This tradgedy should not be made into a political discussion, it should be kept as a logical discussion about the facts and issues from which this thread was started.

    "Two years from now will we have more or less restrictive gun laws because of VA Tech?"

    As I stated in my initial post I feel that the NICS system will be changed as a result of this incident, nowhere in my post did I say that it was illegal for him to purchase the firearms.

    Others here have stated that they feel restrictions will be loosened as a result of this, or that more people will start to carry concealed. I think that is great and will be great if it does happen, but I honestly don't see it going to the point of allowing students to carry in class rooms or that schools are going to start letting teachers lean a rifle up against their desk, there just isn't any good reasoning to believe that is going to happen in the next 2 years.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Your right, crazy is not against the law. But neither is being a minor, and a 12 year old can't go get a gun on their own.

    If someone lies on form 4473 in order to purchase a firearm, they have broken the law, even though being crazy isn't against the law. I personally think that the NICS check is a good thing, but could be made better if "all" the information that is to be reported and put into the system was done so in a timely fashion. And if there was a way for people in the medical profession to get info on folks like Cho into the NICS system, or local PD's to enter it on people when they are picked up for spousal abuse or other violent offenses then the system would work like intended and the innocent people would benefit.

    I would love to hear the arguement that it is a good thing for people with serious mental problems or histories of violence to own firearms.

    That is kind of like saying that people who are legally blind should be allowed pilot licenses or drivers licenses, I am pretty sure we can all agree that we don't want blind people driving....
    I have seen conflicting reports within the last 24 hours regarding what the entire legal scope of this guys purchase of a handgun actually was. Some are saying that the adjudicated order should have caused him to fail the NCIS and some are saying that the order should wasn't an issue. Beyond that, there were no criminal records this guy had that would have made him fail the background check according to police. Until I hear what the actual legal documentation reflects, I'll withhold further comment on that particular instance.

    Should blind people drive cars? Probably not, but they do! 34 states allow legally blind people to get a drivers license! Should blind people fly planes? Probably not, but they have before. What does either of these ideas have to do with changing the NCIS check for obtaining a firearm?

    The problem I see with getting end over end on changing the system because of this is simple. Where does it end? At what point do you stop trying to find reasons why someone should not be allowed to own a firearm? Do we make it so that only "crazy" people like this guy should be banned from owning firearms? What about the guy that goes in for some counseling about his marriage and discusses some type of violent outburts he has had? What about the ex-wife who gets a completly bogus order against her ex-husband just to get back at him for trying to keep 50% custody of their kids? Where does it end and who is going to be the person or persons who decide what is considered and what's not considered in this entire scope of "issues" that can fail your background check?

    The only time I hear about things like this is when it pertains to firearms. For instance, I never hear anyone coming up with stricter ideas for drivers license requirements for "innocent people" that might just one day kill someone while drunk driving. Drunk drivers kill thousands of people each year, ones who have a drivers license and ones who have hade it taken away 3 times already, but I don't see people kicking down doors at the state house demanding tougher restrictions on driver's licenses. The reason? Because it would be a detriment to the people who don't drink and drive. Why should the "innocent people" suffer when it's the malicious acts of a few who cause pain and devastation?
    Firefighter/EMT
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    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
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    The only time I hear about things like this is when it pertains to firearms. For instance, I never hear anyone coming up with stricter ideas for drivers license requirements for "innocent people" that might just one day kill someone while drunk driving. Drunk drivers kill thousands of people each year, ones who have a drivers license and ones who have hade it taken away 3 times already, but I don't see people kicking down doors at the state house demanding tougher restrictions on driver's licenses. The reason? Because it would be a detriment to the people who don't drink and drive. Why should the "innocent people" suffer when it's the malicious acts of a few who cause pain and devastation?
    Personally, I think this is totally wrong. There SHOULD be more restrictions on getting a driver's license; there should be mandatory training, and a difficult test you must pass. That's the way it is with pilot's licenses (my wife is a helicopter pilot, I should know). Driving is a privilege, not a right protected by the Constitution. Tens of thousands of people die every year because of people who have no business behind the wheel.

    Don't equate gun ownership to drivers licenses. The analogy doesn't work. You don't need a car to protect yourself from crime (or tyrannical government), and a car is arguably a more effective weapon than a gun for committing mass murder.

    There absolutely should be much stronger restrictions on car use by DUI convicts. I say confiscate their vehicle.

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