Meeting with University dean of students tomorrow, input welcome.

Meeting with University dean of students tomorrow, input welcome.

This is a discussion on Meeting with University dean of students tomorrow, input welcome. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I started carrying about a month ago (i'm 21), and the only place I cannot carry that I ever go is on campus. This bothered ...

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Thread: Meeting with University dean of students tomorrow, input welcome.

  1. #1
    Member Array mikeb's Avatar
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    Meeting with University dean of students tomorrow, input welcome.

    I started carrying about a month ago (i'm 21), and the only place I cannot carry that I ever go is on campus. This bothered me, so February 9th I wrote an email to our dean of students.

    here is the email

    Dean ...,

    I am a junior in the college of engineering here at Purdue's West Lafayette campus. I am concerned about Purdue's policy on carrying weapons on campus, specifically the legal carry of a firearm for personal protection under Indiana code 35-47-2 .

    Since Purdue is a University not a "School" defined as k-12 by Indiana, a person possessing a valid permit to carry a handgun can legally carry on campus, though it would be against Purdue's code of conduct as stated in the attached University Senate Document 99-10.

    Purdue is a land grant University therefore our campus not privately owned, so IC35-47-11-2 should apply when it states that no "unit" can limit the right of a licensed person to carry a firearm for personal protection in the state of Indiana.

    My reason for bringing this up is that I am soon going to receive a permit to carry a handgun for personal protection, like thousands of other Hoosiers, and would like to be able to protect myself with it, always. This is not a whimsical desire, I have spend countless hours and dollars jumping through hoops to exercise this right.

    A specific horrible example of a time I could have used this right occurred last year, and was covered by the Purdue Exponent in the attached article. I was personally one of three employees delivering that shift for that store. Incidents like this do happen on campus, see another recent example from the Exponent.

    I do not necessarily want to change University policy on the carrying of handguns or create a large disturbance or debate across campus. The point of concealed carry for me is purely personal protection. I only request that I be "specifically authorized by the University" as stated in University Senate Document 99-10 to possess a gun while on campus.
    -I want to stress that this is currently legal, but against University regulations.
    -I would be carrying concealed, it would be a stretch of the imagination that someone would ever even find out that I was in possession of a firearm.
    -I do not live in a dorm, and would not be entering a dorm or dining hall for any reason.


    I thank you so much for your time and consideration.
    I look forward to your response, and would be very open to meeting with you about this matter.


    Michael Bowyer

    Purdue Mechanical Engineering student (3 years)
    Indiana resident (lifetime, 21 years)


    Attachments:
    -current Purdue regulation on students possessing guns
    -example of a specific time this could have saved my life


    After the VT shootings I had still not gotten a response, so I resubmitted the email, April 19th with this heading.


    WILL YOU PLEASE pay attention to my email now, after the VT massacre.
    I have sense received my Indiana unlimited lifetime permit to carry a handgun.
    If I do not hear back from you I will attempt to make an appointment to personally see you with a printout of this email


    I was very heated that day, and could not concentrate on anything so I may have been a little aggressive, but he sent this email back promptly.


    Dear Mike,



    I actually referred your first email to one of the people who was involved in writing the current policy for the University. Perhaps my mistake was in not following up to see that your question was answered. At this point, my preference would be for the two of us to meet personally to discuss the policy. That way, we can both be satisfied that we have at least met and talked about the policy, even if we agree to disagree.



    In order to schedule a time that is convenient for both of us, you may contact my secretary, Karen Mosson, by calling 49-41239 or by emailing her at kamosson@purdue.edu If you prefer, she can call or email you to set up an appointment; just let me know how you would like to proceed.



    Meanwhile, I will try to find the email that I forwarded to one of the authors of the current policy to show that I did attempt to address your question. I receive so many emails that I must refer many of them to a more appropriate source for response, in order to try to keep up with the volume that I receive.



    I look forward to meeting and talking with you.



    I set up an appointment for tomorrow. So far this is my idea of what I hope will happen.

    Hi my name is mike
    :coastguard: Hi I am the dean of students at your huge university
    I would like to have my right to protect my life recognized by the university.
    :coastguard:

    That is all I know. I plan on coming in with a print version of http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...s4-1-Print.pdf in case he has any misconceptions and I need a quick reference to back myself up.

    I am going to stay my original course of just trying to get carry for myself first, to further separate myself from possible critique as a reactionist.

    Also I am going to bring a list of times school shootings were stopped by legally armed citizens. I just can't find the post that had this listed.

    Any other ideas.
    I plan on having 20-30 minutes with him.


  2. #2
    Member Array pistola's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Good luck young man.You have a lot of people supporting you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Paladin132's Avatar
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    Let us know how it goes... I have considered this same approach at my campus.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array fed_wif_a_sig's Avatar
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    Good luck. I have a feeling the legal argument will be more persuasive than the just me request, but who knows. Be prepared for heavy disagreement from them because of the recent incidents at VT, but you might point out that so far 30 people have been identified as having CCLs who had to lock up their weapons and were unable to defend or stop the events. Again good luck and I'll keep you in my prayers during the day.
    Steve
    "Respect all ... Fear none!!!

  5. #5
    Member Array myusername's Avatar
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    I have been wanting to talk to someone in charge at my university. State law, from everything I can see, allows one to keep a firearm in their dorm room and carry it between the dorm and their vehicle. School policy prohibits this. The school policy is basically the same at all state schools here.

  6. #6
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    Good luck and keep your cool. Maybe you can start a healthy trend of faculty and students coming to an agreement on the issue. Start by getting the camel's nose inside the tent, don't try to shove the whole animal at once.

    Idea: If they are open somewhat but reluctant, ask them if they would accept not only your CCW as proof of "maturity" and skill but offer to present them with an NRA Basic Safety certificate (Obviously take the class) or even a RSO class certificate. Probably Campus Police do not have such certifications and the University might look for you whenever a gun issue arises. "Well, youg Mike has certificates and training up his belly button, why don't we ask for his advice on this subject?"
    I know... I might be dreaming, but who knows?
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

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    Signed: Me!

  7. #7
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    Taking The Bull By The Horns...

    I admire your desire to have a discussion with the administration...be polite, be a good listener, be positive...

    I wish you the best...Good Luch!

    Stay armed...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    For starters make sure you thank him for getting back to you (even though it was late). Also remember to keep yourself collected, even if he consistently rebutts everything you say...keep it calm and civil. Make sure you're the one coming out looking like you're squared away and civil (meaning don't let any of that "heated" moment from the second email come into play).

    Oh and here's one example from Virginia(can't seem to find the right thread here, but this is a link to wikipedia):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...f_Law_shooting
    and this one on the same shooting:
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DGB5PA6E61.DTL

    Good luck...Keep us posted on the outcome.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  9. #9
    Member Array mikeb's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input guys. I hope to god (i don't even believe in god but I can still hope to him right??) that this guy is reasonable. This is about as conservative of a campus as you're going to get, so I might just MIGHT JUST get a republican or liberitarian.

  10. #10
    Member Array Knight's Avatar
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    Hey Mike, if you need another body, I'm at Purdue as well. Just shoot me a PM.
    Last edited by Knight; April 23rd, 2007 at 09:22 PM.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    Good luck and keep your cool. Maybe you can start a healthy trend of faculty and students coming to an agreement on the issue. Start by getting the camel's nose inside the tent, don't try to shove the whole animal at once.

    Idea: If they are open somewhat but reluctant, ask them if they would accept not only your CCW as proof of "maturity" and skill but offer to present them with an NRA Basic Safety certificate (Obviously take the class) or even a RSO class certificate. Probably Campus Police do not have such certifications and the University might look for you whenever a gun issue arises. "Well, youg Mike has certificates and training up his belly button, why don't we ask for his advice on this subject?"
    I know... I might be dreaming, but who knows?
    Miggy makes a good point too...Some folk..A lot actually...relate age to maturity levels. You're young so it might count against you. So follow miggy's advice...also anything else you can add to help show you're a responsible, squared away person may help. Example would be if you do any volunteer firefighter/ems work etc... to put it out there. -Just a thought.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #12
    Member Array mikeb's Avatar
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    I have a good example of maturity with violence in a school environment, and taking the high road against all odds.

    I actually left my highschool mid fall semester my junior year because of threats of violence against me. I chose to leave everything I knew because I refused to get in a physical fight with someone and the school refused to help me with derranged disturbed violent criminal students.

    That is a different story for a different day, but gives me some street cred, shoot I was only 17 when that happened. Talk about young.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Good luck. Smile a lot, shake his hand warmly and make eye contact while still smiling(sales 101). DO NOT lose your temper. Make sure he sees you as a nice guy, whatever BS he may spew.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

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  14. #14
    Member Array Yddnac's Avatar
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    i don't mean to be a downer but i think the only reason he is meeting you is to gauge if you're going to go crazy ... universities faculty and admin are pretty notorious for being anti-gun

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Oh yeah...I forgot ...and this one is important...whether or not people realize it because it's subtle...don't allow yourself to get too loud even if you're not in any sort of argumentative state. It kind of goes hand in hand with not letting yourself get hot, but actual voice projection/decibles makes a difference.
    I'm not much older than you, but I think I picked up on it. Think of it like TV commercials. When you're watching a good show at a reasonable/comfortable level and a commercial cuts in and they have the volume much louder...your natural inclination is to tune it out. When people speak softer (not so soft that you sound like a pansy) they sort of force you to pay attention because you almost have to listen to be sure you accurately hear what they're saying... I could be wrong, but it's just something I noticed over the years.
    {end workout break}
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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