April 29th, 2007 12:58 PM
ND at gunshop and CCW for customers.
First, a little background. I had been talking with new gunshop owner about taking down old owner's "no CCW in the shop" sign. He was starting to see it my way, although it was on the back burner on his priority list. For details see this:
Yesterday we got a free new hole in the floor from someone with an empty pistol getting ready to go onto the range. There were several people standing within six feet of the shooter, no injuries. The situation was your typical violation of basic gun safety rules, but at least it was pointed in a safe direction. As always the most important rule and the last safety if others fail. Needless to say this has brought our conversation about CCW in the shop back. The Membership here was very helpful and persuasive last time, and was what got him to even consider changing the policy. I am requesting your thoughts and comments again. My argument now, as before, is that we should prohibit handling loaded guns off of the range and in the shop, but should permit CCW. I do not see this event as supporting prohibition of CCW in the shop, as I'm sure many of you will agree. Also, as society has proven many times, "No Nitwits" signs don't keep out the nitwits. Thanks to all for your comments.
April 29th, 2007 01:05 PM
CCW in store means precisely - gun in holster - and there it stays. That is way to go and is perfectly safe if followed.
Handling loaded guns other than on the range has to be a no-no always in this environment.
I am thankful rule #2 at least saved the day - as it should, even when the others get screwed up..
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
April 29th, 2007 01:20 PM
I agree If you are CCW leave it as CCW, until you get onto the actual range.
Originally Posted by P95Carry
"Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
- William Munny (Clint Eastwood in the Unfrogivin)
“The graveyards are full of indispensable men.” – Napoleon Bonaparte
“My Idea of a fair fight is beating baby seals with a club”
April 29th, 2007 03:53 PM
My wife and I belong to a range and the folks there are VERY strict about guns in the shop. The staff carry open. In fact, anyone can carry (including concealed if so authorized), but nobody (NOT ANYBODY) is allowed to unholster a weapon for any reason in the shop - only on the range. This rule is emphasized many, many times during orientation. Holsters, vests, pockets, cases, bags, are all fine - anywhere but in-hand. The first violation cancels your membership without recourse or refund.
Stories like this are just sooooo frustrating to hear about. And so, just to vent a bit, let me say that squeezing the trigger on an "empty" gun is just plain stupid unless immediately preceded by removal of the magazine/rounds and a deliberate visual check of the chamber. Dry fire practice, "systems/functions check", "draw are replace" practice are all fine, but, for crying out loud, it's a gun! Unload the **** thing everytime - even it you "know" it's empty. Consider it part of practice or maintenance.
Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid. - John Wayne. Problem is, in this case, stupid is making life tougher for everyone.
Protect your family. Reload. Call 911.
April 29th, 2007 04:03 PM
Yesterday I was in a gunshop , and wanted to get a pocket holster.
They had NO Signs , BUT I ASKED the counter guy before taking
out my pocket auto - AND Cleared it so I could try the Holster.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
April 29th, 2007 06:45 PM
I routinely shoot at a shop/indoor range that gladly allows legal CCW but the rule is it stays there, untouched, even on the range. No drawing of a loaded weapon unless it's to thwart a felony on or off the range. Considering my other choices in the area I can live with that.
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
April 29th, 2007 08:11 PM
This is exactly the reason that pulling the trigger on any of my guns when it is not pointed down range at the range freaks me out to the point that I will not do it.
I have snap caps that I use for dry fire practice but even then, I don't like it. I have had one DD (Dumb Discharge) in my life and I never want to have another one especially not with all the kids I have.
My favorite range and gun shop is very strict about not handeling weapons in the showroom also. No un-holstering in the showroom, only on the range.
April 29th, 2007 08:32 PM
The local shop I frequent has a big sign on the door welcoming anyone that carries as long as it stays holstered. Not abiding will get you asked to leave and not come back. Reasonable to me as I have the same policy in my home.
April 29th, 2007 08:55 PM
kpw, is that shop Bob's by any chance? I was going to mention the fact that a local shop has the same sign and I think it's a good one. Carry in a shop is fine, unholstering is not.
“Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V
April 29th, 2007 11:29 PM
when I first started reading I had to check and see if you were located by me. I just took a class at my local range and they brought up the fact that 6 people were in the classroom cleaning their handguns when someone failed to check that their firearm was loaded. They only ejected the mag and started cleaning.
Person picked up their 9mm, boom. Bullet lodged itself into the wall. Thankfully the idiot had their weapon pointed away from everyone. Needless to say, the shop owner said he walked into a room with 5 very very very pissed off people.
My local shop also has a no CCW carry, but open carry is allowed.
April 30th, 2007 01:21 AM
I will not shop anywhere that prohibits me from carrying a concealed weapon if there is any other option. I am sure there are others that share my view. That means there is a real possibility that a gun shop that prevents you from carrying a weapon is limiting their potential customer base. That is how I first decided to order a gun online. I learned that the prices are better and the selection is larger. The only reason to shop at the local store is to support the local business owner. But, if they don't support me, I will not support them.
The fact that one idiot had a ND in the shop does not effect me in the slightest. He should have had every possible bad thing happen to him for the ND. Removal from the store, banned from ever coming back, and a bill to repair the damage are just the beginning.
"The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
- Lt. Col. Oliver North
April 30th, 2007 02:53 AM
Originally Posted by Superhouse 15
You're right. This has NOTHING to do with CCW in the shop. You said that this involved a gun that was being brought to use in the range, right? Didn't involve anyone's CCW gun.
If the owner is getting worried about allowing CCW because of this, he really should leave the business, because clearly if he's going to be accurate and honest about this, it's the fact that people are going to be shooting in the range that should worry him.
It's a shooting range. There WILL be live guns and ammunition!
As far as I am concerned, every gun shop and range should allow CCW, and it should be strictly understood that if you bring your gun in concealed, it must remain concealed until after you leave. As in, carry it because it's your carry gun; and as such, it stays concealed just like you were in the mall or a Denny's. That would prevent any problems with CCW NDs. Bust the rule, you gotta leave, and don't come back for a month. That'll learn ya.
But considering forbidding CCW because of a nonCCW-related event is like banning pocket knives because someone went on a rampage with a sword.
April 30th, 2007 02:58 AM
It's funny, there's a shop around here that I was griping about in another thread (because they forbid outside ammo and targets, but then lie about the reasons, and charge a fortune for cheap ammo); but this brought to mind that they also have a sign at the window that says that no one may carry concealed into the store.
I did anyway. To hell with them. I was there to test-fire a new gun, and will never go back in the future. This store is in Delray Beach, Florida, by the way. Selection is great; prices are off the wall; management is corrupt (lies to customers); and staff are arrogant know-it-alls.
No CCW is just one rule -- of many -- that make this shop a no-go. Ironically, even though they have a no CCW rule, they also apparently have a "Never bother to follow the actual gun safety rules" rule, as well. I saw customers and STAFF alike waving handguns around willy-nilly. Muzzle-sweeping everyone. Buncha incompetents.
LOL, I just remembered, this is the store that had some guy come in to check out a gun, and run off with it. Someone from the store fired shots after him, outdoors, too. Dunno if the thief was ever caught.
April 30th, 2007 06:43 AM
Yeah, it's Bob's. Only place I buy anything around here anymore. My kids call it dad's toy store! Do you shoot there much?
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
April 30th, 2007 12:37 PM
In our store (I work at a gun shop/range) almost every single one of us carries (and even the guy who doesn't carry has his permit he just doesn't like carrying all day long).
We have to keep our weapons concealed because we have a lot of kids who come in for paint ball gear and some fishing and so we conceal.
Concealed carry is allowed in the store but as stated before, ABSOLUTELY NO GUN LEAVES ITS HOLSTER UNLESS ON THE RANGE.. PERIOD.
Even those who want to leave the range carrying must show the weapon clear, load it and holster it before they leave the range.
Any guns that pass from the rental case to the range are handled by employees only and must be handled with the chamber open at all times.
Those are the only guns that can be handled while not on the range.
We do have people bring in guns frequently to be serviced for one reason or another, but the customer is not to clear the weapon, we are.
Safety is a big thing (as it should be) and I think we have good policies in place that ensure a safe environment but provide for the CCWer.
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