safety issue (half-cocked)

This is a discussion on safety issue (half-cocked) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SonofASniper What I am referring to is any firearm that has a hammer cocked back. 1911's are the only ones that I ...

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Thread: safety issue (half-cocked)

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    What I am referring to is any firearm that has a hammer cocked back. 1911's are the only ones that I am familiar with that features the hammer back as the primary mode of carry. I have never seen any other weapon (revolvers, rifles, and autos), that anyone recommends as safe to carry with the hammer cocked back.
    There are plenty of pistols out there that are carried cocked and locked, such as Browning Hi-Power, HK USP (in some variants). A vast majority of rifles are carried with the hammer or striker back. Most rifles don't even have any way to safely lower the hammer or striker with a round in the chamber.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    There are plenty of pistols out there that are carried cocked and locked, such as Browning Hi-Power, HK USP (in some variants). A vast majority of rifles are carried with the hammer or striker back. Most rifles don't even have any way to safely lower the hammer or striker with a round in the chamber.
    I will disagree with you on all but the browning Hi-power, I forgot about that one.

    I think if we were all together on a range with the firearms in question, we would all end up realizing that we are talking about the same thing, and were really making the same point.

    I am refering to firearms specificly with an external hammer that can be lowered. That includes 1911's, even though those are designed to be carried that way.

    Lets take a couple of examples:
    You are hunting with a Marlin lever action 30-30 rifle. You load a round in the chamber. Do you begin to hunt with that hammer back? or do you lower the hammer and then proceed with your hunt? I have always known and believed that the hammer is to be lowered until you are ready to fire. I have never been part of a firearms safety instruction or at a range where walkin around with the hammer back is acceptable, and doing so could get you removed from the class/range.

    Your loading a Sig 220. You put the round in the chamber. Do you lower the hammer or do you leave it cocked back? If you left it cocked on a range, a range officer would probably declare the weapon hot and order you to make the weapon safe before he made the range cold.

    Your loading a Ruger Blackhawk. Do you carry it with the hammer cocked back or lowered? Same thing.

    I believe that that is what the person in question on this post is struggling with and consequently is carrying his 1911 in a more dangerous "half-cocked" position, thinking he is being EXTRA safe, when in fact he is being dangerous. I can see his struggle with wanting to carry the 1911 with the hammer cocked back. It goes against the standard for nearly every other firearm with an external hammer. Even if this person understands that the 1911 was designed to be carried this way. I admit that I personnally have a problem with it, but not to the degree that I refuse to associate with anyone who carried a 1911 with the hammer cocked back. I have just chosen for myself that I don't like it and won't carry one (and there are other reasons as well, this is one of the least of them).

    I hope I am being clear enough. I really feel that if we were all face to face with some example of weapons, we would all realize "Oh yea, I see what you mean." on all sides.

    Instead I feel like the 1911 cultist.... I mean fans are coming out of the wood work and forming a lynch mob because they thought I was insulting their precious god... I mean pistol.




    Just kidding on that last bit.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

  4. #33
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    HALF COCKED = HALF READY

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  5. #34
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    Your loading a Sig 220. You put the round in the chamber. Do you lower the hammer or do you leave it cocked back?
    Cocked and locked, if it's the 220 SAO.

    You are hunting with a Marlin lever action 30-30 rifle. You load a round in the chamber. Do you begin to hunt with that hammer back? or do you lower the hammer and then proceed with your hunt? I have always known and believed that the hammer is to be lowered until you are ready to fire. I have never been part of a firearms safety instruction or at a range where walkin around with the hammer back is acceptable, and doing so could get you removed from the class/range.
    True, but until recently, they never had a manual safety either.

    I have never seen any other weapon (revolvers, rifles, and autos), that anyone recommends as safe to carry with the hammer cocked back.
    The CZ-75s are also safe to carry C&L.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    I will disagree with you on all but the browning Hi-power, I forgot about that one.
    What about the USP (specifically variants 1, 2, 9, and 10)?

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    I am refering to firearms specificly with an external hammer that can be lowered. That includes 1911's, even though those are designed to be carried that way.
    Why does it matter if the hammer is internal or external? Does the fact that you can see it make it more dangerous than if the hammer were safely out of view?

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    Your loading a Sig 220. You put the round in the chamber. Do you lower the hammer or do you leave it cocked back? If you left it cocked on a range, a range officer would probably declare the weapon hot and order you to make the weapon safe before he made the range cold.

    Your loading a Ruger Blackhawk. Do you carry it with the hammer cocked back or lowered? Same thing.
    Neither of these weapons have a manual safety, so I don't see how the examples apply to a 1911. Carrying a DA/SA SIG or a revolver with the hammer back would be like carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked, which I would agree is unsafe.

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofASniper View Post
    Instead I feel like the 1911 cultist.... I mean fans are coming out of the wood work and forming a lynch mob because they thought I was insulting their precious god... I mean pistol.
    I don't even own a 1911 (though it's on my "to buy" list) so I can hardly be accused of drinking the kool-aid. However, I will plead to having a cocked and locked USP Compact on my hip at this very moment.

  7. #36
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    Keep it on track, guys.

    C &L seems to work best for me. be it a HK USP or my 1911.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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