safety issue (half-cocked)

safety issue (half-cocked)

This is a discussion on safety issue (half-cocked) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What is half-cock good for on a 1911? My best friend lives in PA and he is the one that told me to buy my ...

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Thread: safety issue (half-cocked)

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Timmy Jimmy's Avatar
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    safety issue (half-cocked)

    What is half-cock good for on a 1911?

    My best friend lives in PA and he is the one that told me to buy my Kimber Ultra CDP and I do love it. He has 30 or so guns in every caliber you can think of from varmint rifles to a derringer, but he has not been carrying concealed.

    He owns a pharmacy and has a CHL (or what ever they call them in PA) and he has started to carry.

    Tonight he told me he was carrying with one in the chamber but he only half-cocked the weapon. Now when the Kimber Ultra CDP is at half-cock the thumb safety will not engage.

    His thinks this is safer. His plan is if he has to use the gun to pull the weapon and cock the trigger with his thumb.

    This does not sound like a good practice to me, but I was just so shocked that this is what he is doing that I did not know what to say to him.

    So I turn to you experts for advice, once again.
    Timmy Jimmy

    If it is not in the US Constitution then the Federal Government should not be doing it.

    "Carrying a gun is a social responsibility."


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    Not smart. It isn't very good for the sear, and on top of that, it takes more time and effort (along with a bigger chance to loose your grip on the gun) to cock the hammer (or rack the slide if you've got an empty chamber), than it takes to just wipe your thumb past the safety.

    The thumb safety prevents hammer movement, slide movement, and trigger movement, and is faster to disengage and use the pistol.

    If he can't trust himself to carry with it fully cocked and the safety on, he needs to find a new gun to carry.
    ~Mike F.
    http://www.ConcealedCampus.com
    http://www.a-human-right.com/
    "Quemadmoeum gladuis neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    I agree with Jeep. Not a good idea to leave at half cock.

  4. #4
    Member Array Flippinstk's Avatar
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    +1......... Fully cocked and locked!
    Alex G.
    S&W M&P .45
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Senior Chief Petty Officer, RETIRED, USN
    Certified NRA Pistol Instructor
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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Cocked and Locked. That's what it was designed for.
    ...He suggested that "every American citizen" should own a rifle and train with it on firing ranges "at every courthouse." -Chesty Puller

  6. #6
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    Also agree with Jeep... Cocked and locked if you are going to carry a 1911 (or cocked and unlocked if you trust yourself).

    He might as well carry uncocked if he's going to carry at half-cock, both are about the same as far as being useless.

    The only difference is if he has a series 70 or series 80 on half cock. One will not allow the hammer to fall no matter what you do, the other will allow the hammer to fall but not with enough force to actually fire the weapon (don't remember which exactly does which).

    I would MUCH rather have the thumb safety engaged than stay at half-cock.
    Last edited by limatunes; May 1st, 2007 at 12:05 PM.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    RTFKM!!! (Read the Friendly Kimber Manual). Here's a quote from Page 17:

    HAMMER SAFETY STOP
    The hammer safety stop is a notch on the
    hammer which prevents it from falling fully forward
    in the event of primary sear notch failure. It also
    prevents fingers slip from the slide or hammer
    while cocking the pistol, provided the hammer has
    been moved past the stop. The safety stop is not
    a manual safety! Do not under any circumstances
    use the safety stop as a “half cock” position.
    This
    misuse can result in damage to the sear, and/or
    unintentional discharge of the pistol. The safety
    stop position is an automatically engaging safety
    feature and should never be engaged by hand!
    Condition 1 is the safe way way to carry a 1911 for self defense. You might mention to your friend that there is no such thing as a Condition 1/2.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  8. #8
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    You might mention to your friend that there is no such thing as a Condition 1/2.
    +1!


  9. #9
    Senior Member Array incredipete's Avatar
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    Yikes!
    Gun Control means never having to say "I missed you."

    - Glock 27 (.40)
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    - Smith & Wesson 5906 (9mm)

  10. #10
    OD*
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    The only difference is if he has a series 70 or series 80 on half cock. One will not allow the hammer to fall no matter what you do, the other will allow the hammer to fall but not with enough force to actually fire the weapon (don't remember which exactly does which).
    Lima,

    It is the Series 80 type hammers that have the 1/4 cock shelf and the Series 70 that have the 1/2 cock notch.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Its been covered. One other thing I have seen, though: repeated use of the half-cock, or a couple of modest, unintended blows to the hammer in that postion can roll the edge of the sear. IOW, he would go to cock it, and maybe get his thumb out of the way of the slide before it slip-fired.

  12. #12
    OD*
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    What the thumb safety actually blocks, when it is in the "on" position.

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    Lima,

    It is the Series 80 type hammers that have the 1/4 cock shelf and the Series 70 that have the 1/2 cock notch.
    THANKS! Another thing to add to my 1911 knowledge room somewhere in my head.


  14. #14
    OD*
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    You're welcome ma'am.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  15. #15
    Member Array xercise2nd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timmy Jimmy View Post
    What is half-cock good for on a 1911?

    ...but he only half-cocked the weapon. Now when the Kimber Ultra CDP is at half-cock the thumb safety will not engage.

    His thinks this is safer. His plan is if he has to use the gun to pull the weapon and cock the trigger with his thumb.
    The answer's been given already. It seems to me your pal is untrained and is also lacking familiarity both with his weapon and with defensive response. Suggest to him he needs a Level II course with a reputable trainer. Taking the safety off is a fluid motion in the draw.

    Let me know if you or he would be interested in a recommendation for the course in PA.

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