Why I'm worried...

Why I'm worried...

This is a discussion on Why I'm worried... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the immediate aftermath of the VT shootings, many were wondering if the attack could have been terror related. While that turned out not to ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 28
  1. #1
    Member Array grendel2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Richmond Heights, MO
    Posts
    25

    Why I'm worried...

    In the immediate aftermath of the VT shootings, many were wondering if the attack could have been terror related. While that turned out not to be the case, I am VERY worried that the success Cho had on his attack at VT is a great example to ACTUAL terrorists that shows how vulnerable we truly are.

    Why waste time, effort and expense, not to mention exposure to being caught, by trying elaborate attacks with planes, nukes or bio-weapons when it's simple to send armed terrorists into schools to cause massive damage with little to no opposition?

    The same thing holds true for shopping malls or other public places. I've only had my Tennessee HCP since January but I carry religiously (SIG 239 or 226 in a VersaMax II or a Kahr PM9 in a Smart Carry - both of which have been FANTASTIC carry solutions for me) and would never think of going unarmed now for exactly these reasons.

    I believe that this attack, as terrible as it was, may to be even worse in the future in terms of damage done to us for what it has done to open the eyes of the world to our vulnerability.

    I fear for my son and daughter, who are only four years old and four months old respectively, for the danger I believe they will be in throughout their coming lives, especially is school or in large groups in public.

    What say you?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    To commit thread narcolepticy ill suggest a thread i started that got somewhat off track http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ighlight=trunk use the search feature with maby keyword mall or school to find others , Intervention is allso a good keyword for this search .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    2,753
    I honestly don't think it showed potential terrorists anything they didn't already know.

    Any society, even ones with locked-down, totalitarian regimes, are vulnerable to a suicide attacker. The danger to an open society is that it can make us change our core values, give up the essential freedoms that make us who we are, in a vain attempt to acquire safety. A free, armed, citizenry has a better chance of defending against this type of attack, than a nation which distrusts its own citizens so much that it denies them the opportunity to defend themselves.

    At the end of the day, there's never been any guarantee that the world would be a safe place. Those of us who were in school back in the early 60s learned that it might be necessary to "duck and cover" at any time. With that many nukes pointing at us, only trust in the rationality of our and our enemies' leaders kept our populace functioning normally.

    And that's what we all have to do. Do our best to protect ourselves and our loved ones from threats great and small, while at the same time not lose sight of the quality of life that's afforded a free and open society. As Jerry Pournelle wrote, "The great thing, is not to lose your nerve."
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  4. #4
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    Bottom line for me, simply - is that the potential list of disruptive possibilities terrorists have is almost beyond belief.

    If we as good guys just stop and let the imagination run riot ... it does not take long to come up with all sorts of scenarios - many way less large than the classic destruction of major utility items for example - and see the cumulative effects on all of our society just thru relatively small scale 'incidents'.

    The terrorist's aim is overall to impart fear and uncertainty and bring about political and societal changes, which then effectively disrupt and slowly destroy what was once safe freedom. It can be very incremental - and sure does not only need 9/11 type incidents to achieve results.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    5,134
    I will go out on a limb here tho and predict that we will see a small arms terror incident ( again )in the usa before we see an ied or suicide bomber .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,206
    I said just after 911 I expect the next targets to be our schools and malls. I am somewhat shocked that this has not happened yet. Perhaps the enemy feels that since 911 was such a success on a grand scale that they must top that.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Quote Originally Posted by grendel2000 View Post
    I believe that this attack, as terrible as it was, may (prove) to be even worse in the future in terms of damage done to us for what it has done to open the eyes of the world to our vulnerability.
    What say you?
    What I say is that to anyone who might want to plan an attack on Americans, the fact of our vulnerability was not concealed from common knowledge until the VT attack. What I'm saying is, the VT attack did not teach or show anyone anything that they couldn't already know.

    If you put on your "criminal-thinking cap" for a moment anywhere you happen to be, you can easily conceive of ways in which to kill people in a terroristic way. It could be that you envision going into a crowded movie theater and sitting in the back row and firing at the backs of everyone. You could envision entering a school and doing it (that one's not new). You could do what that guy Billy Ferry did and walk in somewhere, douse people with a few gallons of gasoline, and throw a lit match.

    These ideas were not cracked open by the VT attack. Terrorists lie in wait for whatever their reasons are. The fact is, if terrorists wanted to, they could be attacking daily, all around the country, in ways you haven't even thought of. Why they don't, I don't know.

    But there was no secret made of our vulnerability to the VT style of attack, and so the VT attack did not cause anyone anywhere to go, "Hey, yeah, that's something we could do!" What, no one could've thought of going into a school full of unarmed people before this happened? I think your concern is misplaced and overblown about it.

  8. #8
    Member
    Array davyray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    123
    All good points. Another, I believe, is this...

    While the terrorists don't mind killing us, and probably rather enjoy it in their sick way, I don't think that is the ultimate goal. What they really want is to topple our society and culture. Did the VT shooting disrupt the markets? Did people all over the nation stay home from work out of pure fear? Has the dollar collapsed? Of course not.

    Not only is the list of potential terror targets long, the BG's know they won't do much to help them achieve their ultimate goal. In fact, we as a nation and our current state of political affairs are probably doing more to help them than any mall or school shooting ever could.

    While I am a firm believer in preparedness and self-protection, the answer to the terror problem is much, much bigger than that.

    My two-bits worth.

    Dave.
    Go beyond that which is required of you...

  9. #9
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    266
    Quote Originally Posted by davyray View Post
    While the terrorists don't mind killing us, and probably rather enjoy it in their sick way, I don't think that is the ultimate goal. What they really want is to topple our society and culture. Did the VT shooting disrupt the markets? Did people all over the nation stay home from work out of pure fear? Has the dollar collapsed? Of course not.

    Not only is the list of potential terror targets long, the BG's know they won't do much to help them achieve their ultimate goal. In fact, we as a nation and our current state of political affairs are probably doing more to help them than any mall or school shooting ever could.
    No, the singular VT incident didn't disrupt markets or cause the dollar to collapse. However, a large barrage of such incidents would certainly cause a lot of damage. Look how much damage a lone, deranged gunman was able to cause at VT. Now think how much damage a determined, well-armed and prepared (trained) team of terrorists could do at just one school. It'd be at least as bad as the incident in Beslan, Russia. Now remember that Al Quaeda likes to make things big, with multiple teams operating simultaneously; what would happen to the American public's psyche if organized terrorist teams invaded, say, 20-50 schools or universities all on one day, killing 200-500 people at each one? No one would let their kids go to school any more. It'd be a mess.

  10. #10
    Member
    Array davyray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    123
    Yes, it would be a big mess! The American public's psyche would be greatly impacted. But that's my point. My guess is that the terrorists are not targeting the American public's psyche. We American's have demonstrated over and over that we are resilient and even after a situation like you have described, we would recover. I think they are after much more than that. I also think they underestimate (but maybe not) the resolve of a free man to remain free.

    As an afterthought...
    If you started seeing events as described in your scenario unfold, what would you do? I would be armed and on my way to the kids school as I believe would many others. Not to go in guns-a-blazin' and doing the whole vigilante thing, just to be there - and ready. This is one more small example of what makes this country great and why, ultimately, the terrorist will not "win."

    Dave.
    Go beyond that which is required of you...

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shelby County TN
    Posts
    11,118
    They already knew about this. If they didn't think it up on their own a long time ago Tom Clancey had a terrorist plot with 4 or 5 teams of 4 or 5 terrorists shooting up malls at the same time in different locations in the USA. It was in "Teeth of the Tiger". Not one of his better books but it had a good over all get even with them plot right after 9/11.

    He also pointed out the 800 pound gorilla in the room. All the terrorists came into the country via the USA/Mexico border, illegally. Why the heck we don't have armed military units patrolling the border is beyond me.
    ,=====o00o _
    //___l__,\____\,__
    l_--- \___l---[]lllllll[]
    (o)_)-o- (o)_)--o-)_)

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Shadowsbane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,051
    In my opinion to attack now would be a waste of time. Not to be too political but there are currently a small number of people who have the will to fight terrorism. Most others either wish to blame themselves or want to bribe them into not killing us.

    First you get leadership that refuses to fight against you, then you fight against them. Just like what happened in Spain with the train attack.
    Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    www.Lonelymountainleather.com

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    266
    Quote Originally Posted by Sig P239 View Post
    He also pointed out the 800 pound gorilla in the room. All the terrorists came into the country via the USA/Mexico border, illegally. Why the heck we don't have armed military units patrolling the border is beyond me.
    We have armed Border Patrol agents there. However, whenever they actually shoot an illegal or drug smuggler in self-defense, they go to prison for murder. I wouldn't blame the Border Patrol for just turning a blind eye to every illegal now, with the way this administration is stabbing them in the back.

    We don't have armed military units because the administration is blatantly in favor of open borders.

  14. #14
    Member Array broknindarkagain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    462
    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Repairs View Post
    I will go out on a limb here tho and predict that we will see a small arms terror incident ( again )in the usa before we see an ied or suicide bomber .
    I agree with you 100%
    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

    Smith & Wesson M&P9c

  15. #15
    Member Array sailormnop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tidewater, VA, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    No, the singular VT incident didn't disrupt markets or cause the dollar to collapse. However, a large barrage of such incidents would certainly cause a lot of damage. Look how much damage a lone, deranged gunman was able to cause at VT. Now think how much damage a determined, well-armed and prepared (trained) team of terrorists could do at just one school. It'd be at least as bad as the incident in Beslan, Russia. Now remember that Al Quaeda likes to make things big, with multiple teams operating simultaneously; what would happen to the American public's psyche if organized terrorist teams invaded, say, 20-50 schools or universities all on one day, killing 200-500 people at each one? No one would let their kids go to school any more. It'd be a mess.
    I used to think that the terrorists would start hitting small towns and suburban schools - all the places Americans feel safest. After seeing the VT atrocity and thinking some more on the subject, I don't think they will. Ultimately, it would make us stronger. We would all arm up. We would guard our children 24/7, either personally or taking turns with other parents. We would have escape plans for every situation, patrolling the areas around our schools. We would home-school more. It would force Americans to be more self-reliant and to organize into small mutual protection groups. This would make us more American. It would make us more unlike them - collectivist theocrats. I think they really don't want to mess with us as individuals. They know that's a short road to defeat.

    Just my .02
    Check out the Free State Project

    How does the economy really work? Mises Institute

    Laissez Faire Books offers an extensive collection of books on liberty, free markets, philosophy, economics, politics and history.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone else get worried about this?
    By lambo969 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 4th, 2010, 10:51 PM
  2. Worried about HST
    By dyvegas in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: June 1st, 2010, 03:53 AM
  3. Should I be worried?
    By hothoog in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: March 11th, 2010, 12:20 PM
  4. Should I be worried about this?
    By Morty in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: December 17th, 2009, 09:42 PM
  5. Worried about my Dad
    By dwpa in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: July 27th, 2007, 11:00 PM

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors