This is a discussion on Avg. Gunfight - How Many Shots Fired? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OPFOR but you may be surprised by how many rounds can be expended in a short amount of time... Isn't that the ...
Good read thanks. It would be interesting to know the location of the head shots and if they were actually hits or grazes.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Dilgentia Vis Celeritas"
There is no average gunfight. There is a gunfight.
"How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -- Rep. Suzanna Gratia Hupp (TX)
Clearly Deputy Fulford was in decent shape, and well trained. Important points......
It seems the key here is whether we want to prepare for average or worst case. Average means some fired more and some fired less. What if your gunfight isn't average? There is no guarantee that a magic average is going to stop the fight.
I suspect that if we could look at that 8 round 'average' that not all of those 8 shots were hits. It seems to me that in discussions like this, we tend to visualize a gunfight as we visualize it on the range - a stationary target, fully disclosed and squared off to us in good light, with little scoring rings - and they aren't shooting at us. In reality, there will likely be a lot of movement by all parties, partial disclosure, bullets flying all directions, momentary targets, etc. Why would we think we aren't going to miss some.
I have to say that I think it's foolish to not plan on missing some shots. That's tantamount to not being prepared for the worse case. And you can talk spray and pray to me all you want to - capacity doesn't stop spray and pray - it just lets you shoot and pray longer. If you can shoot well, you can shoot just as well with 17 rounds in the gun as you can with 5 or 6.
As I recall, the 2-3 shot average that purportedly came from the SOP9 data were for officers that died in the encounter - not the ones that survived. Again as I recall, they later discovered the officers that survived fired an average of 6 shots. Now it would seem the average is 8 shots.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
To heavy and cumbersome, I carry a G35 in .40 cal. with 2 extra mags. Total round count 46, What it all boils down to is what your comfertable with. Remember the first rule in a gun fight, "HAVE A GUN"
LIFES JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE "GRAVE" SAFELY ,IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY.BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY S@#$...WHAT A RIDE"
Obviously, for a LEO the average is going to be hight, the BGs are more determined to fight cause they know they might not get away...For the average civilian firefight, it will be lower. The presence of a gun usually wards away BGs... For those few occasions that do merit shots being fired for civilians, its usually very few. A while back 4 men broke into my home, one was armed with a shotgun. My roommate fired 4 shots, hitting two of the guys and that was enough to get the other two to run away. If a BG sees that you are serious and will kill them if you have to, they think twice about messing with you.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Smith & Wesson M&P9c
If we really carried what we would need in worst case, we would all carry a AR, AK, 30-30, shotgun or some other kind of semi-automatic rifle. I would bet that not one of us walks around like that, although us Texans legally could if we wanted to. In fact, I would bet most of us decide what to carry based on a balancing of what is comfortable, what is most effective in a handgun (which really is an oxymoron), what we can shoot best, and what we think is most intimidating. For me, right now this is either a Kimber Ultra or a Kel Tec P 11 with one reload. Sometimes a Ruger P 95 with a 15 round mag. Maybe those are too light for some of you but they suit me just fine.
If NYPD or NOPD, probably 40-50 per shooter.
It's just a joke......
Seems to me that if you're ever attacked, it will be on a day when Murphy and Lady Luck both personally hate your guts.
So you may as well prepare for worse-than-average.
My website: Cornered Cat
I dont feel that you can go from an " average " round count for defensive carry . With that stated and in mind I normally carry a Kahr p9 and a Kahr pm9 . Both are single stack 9mm which will hold 8 and 7 respectively , with one reload that will work in either . If that dont get me out of a situation ( i have no plans to stay for all who may rsvp the gunfight ) I need a SWAT team , not more ammo .
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
I don't think I would be comfortable with a gun that couldn't hold more than 10 rounds. I love having 16 rounds in my gun. Reloads are good, but that is just one more detail for Murphy to screw you up. What happens if the adrenaline and fear mess with you and you drop your mag or can't perform a smooth reload? Plus it is a good idea to get behind cover when you reload...can you count on cover being there? With my G19 I have 16 rounds firmly in my grip, all I have to do is line up the sights and bang away with 147 grain Speer Hollowpoints, and with 16 rounds I can do that until the Lord comes back.
Uh oh.... this is going to degenerate into a 'big punch vs hi-cap' argument if I don't shut up.
Anyway, bottom line is BRING A GUN.
Last edited by OfClanMcnab; May 3rd, 2007 at 06:41 PM. Reason: fixed incomplete sentence