State Police charge driver with case of “vigilante justice”

This is a discussion on State Police charge driver with case of “vigilante justice” within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No mention of CCW, but still not exactly the kind of attention we would like to have. At least his intentions were good, and no ...

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Thread: State Police charge driver with case of “vigilante justice”

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array 4my sons's Avatar
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    State Police charge driver with case of “vigilante justice”

    No mention of CCW, but still not exactly the kind of attention we would like to have. At least his intentions were good, and no reports of anyone getting hurt.

    Read about it here
    "fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen." [Warren v. District of Columbia,(D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)]
    If I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand

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  3. #2
    Member Array tapout1003's Avatar
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    What a nut... this is just what we need. I'll be interested in finding out if he had a permit.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    During the 80s dude watched too many episodes of Hunter.

    - 'Ralph Hinkley'
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #4
    Member Array ebk637's Avatar
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    yeah!!
    That dude aint right!!

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Sounds like a better plan would have been to turn on your hazards, call 911, and watch from a distance... but that's just me...
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be too quick to judge without knowing all the facts...the article leaves room for question...Like what kind of traffic was it heading towards among other things:
    "When it appeared the tractor trailer driver was going to proceed forward into traffic, he shot four times at the driver side tire," says State Police Sgt. Tom Cunningham.
    If that other traffic consisted of minivans with "baby on board signs" would you have been willing to wait and see if he plowed them over?

    My next question would be: Did those shots to the front tire stop or slow the vehicle, thereby preventing it from plowing over innocent victims?

    A drunk behind the wheel of a tractor trailer is no less dangerous than a thug with a gun pointed in your face and should be treated as such, not waiting to see if he might maybe miss everyone else in his path.

    I'm not saying everytime we see a dui we should go vigilante. I'm saying the news may have left a few important details out that we don't know about and in certain VERY SPECIFIC circumstances I may well have acted in some form or fashion myself. Maybe not shooting the tires, but I probably would have put my truck in front and tried to hold him back/slow him down. Those specific circumstances may include a situation where it appeared he was about to run down someone crossing the street ahead (in which case you KNOW the police aren't going to get there in time).

    This may not really be a case of vigilantism...This article however only serves to reinforce the divide...it's a "it's our job to protect not yours, so trust the us(LE) to protect and just wait and see what happens...after the fact". It's no different from watching someone being robbed and subsequently executed. Those kind of scenarios get run in the scenarios section all the time. Do you act, when you're the only one that can...or do you wait it out and hope no one dies or worse?

    But I digress...I need more information on the story before I rant any further. I still stand by my main point...there isn't enough information provided in the article to judge this fellow.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the **** out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Packinnova,

    Shooting out any tire of any moving vehicle results in a very serious and immediate loss of air pressure while at speed which likely will create an accident if not exacerbate a bad driving situation. Even worse is to loose all pressure at a front wheel which steers the vehicle and would result in immediate directional instability.
    We know this from practical experience with the infamous SUV tire pressure loss episodes which resulted in persons vehicles wrecking, overturning, and even running into other vehicles on the road and wrecking them as well.

    It's not a good idea to remove the pressure in the tire of a moving vehicle, especially not one that weighs tens of thousands of lbs. and is pulling a load. Police stop sticks are designed to flatten the tires on both side of an axle front or rear and even then there is still a risk of the operator wrecking even as he might be fully attentive unlike the semi operator in this case.

    - Janq

    "Do not try this at home." - Thats Incredible, yet another 80s TV show
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #8
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Moving erratically - could have been in a parking lot or truck stop.
    Going forward into traffic - leaving the lot to enter a highway.

    Might be that the speed was very minimal.

  10. #9
    Member Array tapout1003's Avatar
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    shooting a front tire on a loaded semi can be fatal for a dozen people...

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array PaulG's Avatar
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    I'm with Packinnova on this one.

    Although I feel that the guy probably overreacted and did something stupid, it could be otherwise. Not enough facts in the article.

    The shooter could have observed the guy driving dangerously and just managing to get his rig stopped purely by accident before someone was killed.

    When the trucker started pulling out again, the shooter may have deemed it best to disable the truck before it picked up speed in order to save lives. Probably far fetched but possible.

    Or. . . . .the shooter was a wack job!

    I know that firing your gun should be a last-resort-people-are-going-to-die-if-you-don't proposition and most likely the shooter screwed up but I will wait until more details come out before trashing him.

    Gives me something to look forward to.
    fortiter in re, suaviter in modo (resolutely in action, gently in manner).

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0.02 View Post
    Moving erratically - could have been in a parking lot or truck stop.
    Going forward into traffic - leaving the lot to enter a highway.

    Might be that the speed was very minimal.
    The article states he was on an interstate and moving forward into traffic as per his call to 911...

    Christopher McCoy, 36, of Norfolk is accused of opening fire on a tractor trailer on Interstate 64 near Short Pump on Monday.

    McCoy got authorities on the phone after police say he and other drivers witnessed a big rig moving erratically.

    But police say McCoy took matters into his own hands.

    "When it appeared the tractor trailer driver was going to proceed forward into traffic, he shot four times at the driver side tire," says State Police Sgt. Tom Cunningham.
    It's doubtful he was in a parking lot or elsewhere moving slowly and if he were then there would be little to no immediate danger enough to react as he did, which was very much not advised.
    When big rigs lose control/directional stability, jackknife, or roll they tend to do alot of damage...to surrounding areas.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; May 2nd, 2007 at 02:50 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array incredipete's Avatar
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    Wow. I'd be pretty unlikely to take shots at a suspected drunk, even if he was in a semi. I've certainly followed drunks down the road while calling 911, but I can't even fathom a scenario where I'd take a shot at one...
    Gun Control means never having to say "I missed you."

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  14. #13
    Member Array soundwave's Avatar
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    While I understand the sentiment of keeping the intoxicated person from entering the highway, I think it went way too far. Yes, way too far, not "a little" far. You are literally using deadly force against someone/something that you are not justified in using. We all know it. Plain and simple.

    When you call 9-1-1 on a potential drunk driver and LE responds, they don't have to witness the erratic driving to pull them over. Search and seizure laws allow witnesses (like the people calling 9-1-1) to make that call. You call it in, they can pull it over. State troopers know how bad a DUI can be and they know it's exponentially worse when they're driving something huge like a semi.

    I would think a better response from the person would be to go in front of the semi and slow him down to a stop before he could get on the highway. That is, if he felt compelled to act now before the troopers showed up. Otherwise, turn your hazards on and just follow it and update 9-1-1 on their location. It's hard enough for cops to stop a semi and even they can't use a handgun to shoot out tires. (It's a shotgun. lol)

    Cheers.
    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall." Adolf Hitler

  15. #14
    Member Array Harold Fastwaker's Avatar
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    I-64 is a 65mph 4 lane road which everyone drives at around 75. The trucks are pretty nasty cause they pass most people. I can see why he would do it but sorry, Ill just slam on my brakes, call the police and keep about 100 cars distance between me and his truck.

  16. #15
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    I would think a better response from the person would be to go in front of the semi and slow him down to a stop before he could get on the highway. That is, if he felt compelled to act now before the troopers showed up. Otherwise, turn your hazards on and just follow it and update 9-1-1 on their location. It's hard enough for cops to stop a semi and even they can't use a handgun to shoot out tires. (It's a shotgun. lol)
    I agree that he probably went too far, but I am not sure getting in front of the vehicle and trying to slow it down would be a very good idea, unless of course he was driving his own semi. Average passenger vehicle is probably about 3500-5000 pounds, and a fully loaded semi with a 53' trailer can have over 20 tons in the trailer, not counting the tractor. With the impaired reflexes and depth perception of the semi-driver, I don't think I would want to risk putting a vehicle in front of that. Even with if the DUI was driving a passenger vehicle, trying to force them over or two slow down would be extremely risky and very probably hazardous to your health.

    I think calling 911 is probably the best call, but I wasn't in the situation, he had a a very short time to make his decision, and now we have tons of time to analyze it.
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