BUG (or not) ??
This is a discussion on BUG (or not) ?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Gentlemen / Ladies, In our everyday world of comings and goings,to the mall,Wally World,Sears,out to eat with your spouse,the local gun show,the local gun shop,etc.,(in ...
April 6th, 2005 08:06 AM
BUG (or not) ??
Gentlemen / Ladies, In our everyday world of comings and goings,to the mall,Wally World,Sears,out to eat with your spouse,the local gun show,the local gun shop,etc.,(in the normal civilian world),my question is this----- Why do we feel that we(you) need a BUG ?? Please understand that this question is not ment to be critical of how you want to carry,what you want to carry,when you want to carry,or how many weapons that you choose to carry(I have a close friend that carries 3.) But please remember that you(or any of us) CANNOT be always completely ready for any and all threats from one or more BG's. I'm sure that we all do what we feel we have to do to protect ourselves and our loved ones. But----just how prepared do we feel that we have to be ?? How prepared can we ever be ?? Can we really be ready for ANYTHING ??-------
April 6th, 2005 09:03 AM
That's a fair question RSSZ and it's asked in a civil tone. Personally I am planning to carry a BUG and a primary as soon as I get the hardware. Why, you ask?
For me it's mostly about positioning. It's the same reason I carry two of everything else. I carry two knives, two multitools, two flashlights, etc. because my experience is that if I only carry one it's never in a position where I can reach it.
It's also a way of hedging one's bets. I make no secret that I don't think it's strictly necessary to have a magazine capacity greater than 5 or 6. But I also realize I don't quantitively know that, and pulling a second gun is a lot faster than trying to reload, at least for me.
Another idea that occurs to me is Gabe Suarez's technique of using a firearm in extreme close quarters might be better facilitated by a compact gun. Essentially you lean back and draw, but you have to be carrying strong side OWB/IWB/or at least in a strong side pocket. We'd all like to think no one will ever get that close to us but you never know. I'd have an easy time pulling out a little BUG in a real "a$$holes and elbows" situation, pardon my French, and a hard time pulling out something in a cross draw holster even if it was a better weapon.
April 6th, 2005 09:10 AM
Good Questions! Good Reply "Euc"
We live in a world of likelihood's & possibilities and as thinking humans we can be prepared for many things.
We (for sure) cannot prepare for everything.
The best that we can accomplish is to gather up all of our life experiences...mix in a healthy portion of what we read and see and hear about ~ toss in some common sense and some training & go with that.
We KNOW (from history) when certain events are likely to occur...walking down a dark alley in a strange neighborhood is never such a good idea and NOT "flipping the bird" to an enraged driver that is twice your size can save you a bit of future aggravation.
Some things we can probably never prepare for. LIKE having the city power go out while we are "blacked out" on the hospital operating room table & having our appendix removed.
Getting back to the subject of Back Up Guns ~ having a "back up" firearm in the event of a primary weapon failure (or loss) is absolutely BETTER than not having one at all.
Carrying a primary firearm that has proven itself to be ultra~reliable is certainly better than having to look around for a brick.
Taking a defensive shot with the cheapest .22 LR is usually better than a hickory stick.
Being armed and having some Martial Arts ability to fall back on is sure better than being armed and totally "out of shape" ~ we all just do what we can do to be somewhat prepared for most things.
Sometimes it all depends on if the Gods are smiling (or not) on that fateful day.
A senior citizen in a car gets hit by a speeding train...the car is totally demolished ~ it instantly bursts into flames...he/she goes flying through the windshield and walks away without a scratch ~
Christopher Reeve takes a mild tumble off a slow walking horse and he is paralyzed for life.
The "Fickle Finger Of Fate" we can probably never be prepared for.
Our individual knowledge & instinct will help us out sometimes.
Right before the Tsunami when the ocean receded....the people that stayed to gawk and gather up stranded fish probably mostly perished & the people that sensed that "something was wrong" & quickly headed for higher ground probably mostly stayed alive.
I hope that some Law Enforcement Officers and Military will "chime in" here. They are "In Danger" ~ "Daily" ~ more than most ordinary folks and stay safe because they have developed a "sixth sense" of when things don't seem right. I'm sure that most LEO carry (at least) a small BUG.
April 6th, 2005 09:25 AM
The leo may want to add to this but as far as I know an on duty LEO will have a small .38 in his back pocket or near by for those emergency situations when the primary weapon is out of reach. Sure makes sense to me and if the normal guy has a hide-away carried safely he is just planning ahead.
As you slide down the banister of life,
May the splinters never point the wrong way.
NRA Life Member
April 6th, 2005 10:00 AM
I had some thoughts/questions along this line as well. I've been reading alot this past year or so as I got my carry permit so I could learn. I've been, at times, amazed at the firepower and determination to carry 100% of the time that I've seen in some posts. I was wondering how many perform some type of risk assessment before they head out on any given day and then decide how/what/if, they'll carry? In the military, I've been in some cities overseas where I would have carried 4 guns, an M16 and some grenades if they'd of let me. Now I live in a quiet rural town in Missouri. I know wild things can happen anywhere but in the military, they realized they couldn't match every anticipated threat or perceived threat so they would assess the risk and based on their assessment of the threat, they'd respond accordingly. I follow the same approch. If I'm heading up to St. Louis, or going night fishing alone along the Mississippi at night then I go heavier on the weapon. If I'm just going to church, I go light or carry nothing. Some of you may live in rough parts of town, others might choose to go "loaded for bear" at all times? Do any of you peform some kind of risk assessment?
April 6th, 2005 11:40 AM
Recently picked up a 9 MM Derringer as a backup.
It is not my primary gun but it fits nicely in a pants pocket. I put in in the pocket opposite the side I carry my primary gun. Another nice feature as I carry IWB for my primary is when driving I can place the Derringer in my strong side coat pocket. This allows easy and quick access if needed. I can even drive with my hand on the gun if I need to.
One poster commented about risk assessment and what, or if, to carry. I try to carry, as they say, 24/7. Even though I live in a realtively violent crime free area you never know where your daily travels may take you, or what small incident may set someone off on a tirade. I'd rather carry 1,000 days in a row and not need my gun than leave it at home one day and need it. I'm sure the folks attending church services a few weeks ago in Wisconsin didn't think they needed to be armed but 7 ened up dead that day.
I try not to be paranoid about this but I like to be cautious. That is one thing I teach in my CCW classes. Paraonia = bad, Cautious = good.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONTESTING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
April 6th, 2005 12:15 PM
1952 - 2006
As a rule I don't carry a BUG. Both of my carry guns are 1911's, a full size custom and a Kimber CDP Compact. Both are so reliable that I have literally shot thousands of rounds from each without so much as a hic-up. I carry one spare mag and a SureFire 6P as well as a Benchmade Emerson CQC-7, everyday all the time.
I count on my situational awareness to address any threat in my vicinity for the speed of acquisition of my firearm. There have been several occasions that I have had either my hand on the grip or the gun in my hand when I perceived a possible threat in my vicinity. As Clint Smith has said, "A gun in the hand is better than one in the holster." The speed with which you can draw a firearm is not as important as realizing a threat is present and already having your gun in hand.
I carry so much crap on me as it is that another gun starts to become cumbersome.
If I were a LEO I'm sure that I would carry a BUG or maybe two of them, but I'm not and the likelihood of my needing more than one gun is highly remote. I know that life hands you stuff that you aren't ready for and couldn't likely expect to happen, but that's what keeps it interesting.
Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences
"I like when the enemy shoots at me; then I know where the ******** are and can kill them."
DE OPPRESSO LIBER
April 6th, 2005 12:57 PM
In answer to your question about risk assessment and making a decision I can only answer for myself (and a couple of my friends). I carry every day,
every where it is legal. The gun I leave at home is worthless - and I did learn that lesson the hard way a long time ago.
I am reading Dave Spaulding right now - and I really like what he had to say
about when we need to carry. His comment was - we do not get to decide when we will need our guns - the bad guys decide when we will need them. We had better have them at that time.
I don't carry a BUG but I carry an extra maazine for my Para 45 LDA.
Take Care.... Stay Safe.... Only Good Hits Count
April 6th, 2005 01:16 PM
Why have a BUG? A BUG gives you a second chance if your primary is no longer useful. I think carrying a BUG makes more sense for those who intentionally place themselves at risk on a regular basis, but it is not a bad idea even for those of us who are risk averse, situationally aware, and who try to avoid dangerous situations whenever possible.
Is it possible to prepare for every contengency? No. You can, however, take basic steps that prepare you for the vast majority of situations you are likely to encounter in your daily life. I cook for groups as a side activity. I was an EMT for many years. I like to camp. I maintain first aid kits for the home, car, camping, and cooking, and even one for my greyhounds, and each is stocked according to the kinds of injuries I am likely to treat in those situations. We also maintain a disaster kit with several days worth of food and water. I've used every first aid kit. We completely used up our disaster kit during the aftermath of Hurricane Isabel, when we were without power for two weeks and under a boil order for several days. But we are prepared.
How does this apply to carry? We choose our weapons according to the threats we are likely to face and the environment in which we find ourselves each day. We can't prepare and equip ourselves for every possible scenario, but we can prepare and equip ourselves for the situations we are most likely to encounter. If we prepare well, we should be able to make due in those scenarios we couldn't foresee. I don't think carrying a BUG equates with trying to prepare for every possible situation. To me, carrying a BUG is like wearing suspenders along with your belt. If your belt doesn't reliably keep your pants up, then suspenders are a good thing. If you never have a problem keeping your pants up, then suspenders may be unnecessary, but they don't hurt. Sometimes, wearing suspenders along with your belt is awkward or doesn't make sense. Some people wear suspenders as a fashion statement. Some people wear suspenders as a matter of practicality or for their job. Most people don't wear suspenders.
Risk assessment. When I was in my 20's, I went through several years where I had to do mission assessments, remain situationally aware, and constantly reassess risk, daily. Old habits die hard. At the risk of sounding paranoid, I try to live my life situationally aware. I prefer to think of it as being prepared.
April 6th, 2005 03:31 PM
When I am out and about in the evening I will usually carry the main gun and a BUG, during the working day, as I work at a university and have to leave it in the truck and things are pretty quiet it is BUG only. Yes I asses the possible danger and carry accordingly, but with the meth problem we have in SE Missouri I don’t think you assume the small towns are safe anymore, that is where the bigger city law enforcement has driven all the meth heads. So I carry (non-work day) at a minimum my Glock 19 and 2 spare high cap mags, often with a .380 backup I can pass to the wife if she is with me or incase of a main gun failure. If I am traveling I will include the Glock 20 (10mm) to punch windshields, doors etc, if going to areas that are having problems (NE Columbia where I sometimes go on business or The Lou where I try to never go) I will carry either the G-20 or the Para-Ord P-14 .45, 2 spare large cap mags with .380 BUG.
The wife and I have a camper that slides in the back of the 1 ton Ford 4X4 and we like to camp places other than “Camp Grounds”. When camping I will have both Glocks (10mm for me, 9mm for the wife), the .380, Remington 1100 12 ga. riot gun (mag extension holding 8 rounds, side saddle with 7 more) loaded with 6 OOO and 2 slugs and the CAR-15 with tritium sights and 10 30 round mags, plus the wife is getting attached to one of my M-1 carbines and wants to take it this summer for her. Are we likely to need all that fire power? Probably not, but I like having the proper tool for the situation at hand, and then again, you just never know.
It seems everytime I start thinking I'm paranoid and leave the weapons at home some @ hole steps up to show me I'm not, so I don't ever go unarmed any more.
April 6th, 2005 03:37 PM
Well, I figure the chances of my running into a situation requiring more firepower than my primary offers are actually quite slim. I am in my 50s, lead a pretty boring lifestyle (no bars, streetcorner hangouts, etc.), and my main reason for caarying is to dissuade (one way or another!) Mr. Robber.
However, I have seen virtually every machine ever made fail at one time or another. This includes high-quality, well-maintained sidearms of every type (revolver and semi, DA and SA). According to Murphy's Law, that spring, pin, or latch will break just when things get ... well ... interesting!
Against that day, I carry a BUG (and a sharp tactical folder, and I train with all, as well as empty hand defensive techniques...). The BUG is small & unobtrusive. The folder is useful for a variety of tasks (yes, I keep its edge maintained!), and the empty-hand and physical training exercises keep me fit, too.
No, I'm not prepared to deal with a truckload of AK-armed terrorists who happen to target me, but I am as prepared as I can be for the "random act of violence."
April 7th, 2005 10:22 AM
Living in a small town does not lower my level of preparedness one bit. I've been confronted by armed assailants in both a large city and in a small town. My daughter was recently attacked by her psycho ex-boyfriend right outside her "downtown" business in our small town. Part of it is the meth influence - but I think it's more the result of our society's loss of civility - and that is everywhere.
Everyone who knows me knows I am a firearms enthusiast. I don't talk about it much - even with those close to me. But the most likely aggressor around here would be someone who knows me and the purpose of the confrontation would not be robbery. What if the assailant suspects I am armed and manages to relieve me of my main gun? He likely would not suspect I'd have a BUG - and that's one more reason to carry one.
If you want to make God laugh - tell Him your plans. Yiddish proverb
April 9th, 2005 01:10 AM
I'm not without a second firearm. Even though my Sig has always been flawless and functional, I'd rather be paranoid than wrong.
I can be the former as many times as I wish. The latter once might be too much.
April 10th, 2005 07:59 PM
This afternoon, as I sit at the computer, a Glock 19 strong side IWB, and a 642 weak side pocket. Were I to go out, I would wear a vest with 296 and 3" 37 in cross draw right and left. One reload for each.
The primary reason guns quit shooting is lack of ammo!!!! Like NY reloads. Like access with both hands.
Accessment is nice--but awarness is better.