Too much or not enough training required?

Too much or not enough training required?

This is a discussion on Too much or not enough training required? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I know a lot of guys that think it's bunk that any training at all is required to obtain a carry permit. I happen to ...

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Thread: Too much or not enough training required?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Too much or not enough training required?

    I know a lot of guys that think it's bunk that any training at all is required to obtain a carry permit. I happen to disagree, and think that Michigans' 8 hour requirement is really a bare minimum. I also see where more would become too expensive for many. I guess I'm wondering what other states require and how you feel about it.

    I've also heard of proposed legislation here that would allow Military Veterans to skip the required training, and I have to disagree with that too. Yeah, I learned how to shoot an M16 and a beretta. I learned nothing about civilian use of force laws. So, one day my car alarm went off and I took my gun out to shoot the SOB stealing my car. Good thing there was noone out there, 'cause I was 18, and completely ignorant that I was gonna have a bad 10-20 years. All I knew is the the good 'ol boys always talked about putting someone down if they tried to take their car or whatever, so I figured I would too. Glad I'm still here to alk about with you guys, instead of my cellmate. Assuming my cellmate wouldn't mind the pillow talk.
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    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    I don't think the 10 hour class/2 hour range is enough for Ohio myself. It's essentially an NRA basic safety course with a hint on use of force. The range was anything from the outer ring in, slow fire, no pressure.

    I'd like to see a staged license by caliber, you can only carry what you qualified with and under. I'd also like to see a 1 course per year requirement, so everybody is getting more advanced courses at least once per year.

    Call me a *****, but if somebody is having trouble at 7 yards or under with a .22 target pistol, in that kind of enviornment, I don't want to see them out in the real world with a much more powerful caliber.
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    OK, what does the training cover. Not for nothing but I think 8 hours is excessive.
    CCW training should encompass and focus the law regarding carrying a gun. Training on proficiency is up to each individual.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
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    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    "right to keep and bear" kind of says it for me...

    but then again, I spent almost 9 years in the military, and used to instruct handgun courses from time to time...

    I think that it should be a requirement to graduate from high school, it should be taught in a course on "Life Skills," you know, balancing a checkbook, drown proofing, and how to properly feed, maintain and use
    a firearm...

    but that's just me...

    I did teach a firearms safety and marksmanship class in a public high school in Ohio... carried a revolver, a rifle and a shotgun right in the front door in the morning, and right back out & home that afternoon - plain view, no cases- no one died, no one called the cops either IIRC...


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    It is my opinion that anyone taking the class should already be proficient with a gun. There is no way to enforce that so it would never work but some of the people that were in my class just scared the hell out of me.

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    There is no training requirement in Alabama. We are a "May Issue State" with the issue being up to the local Sheriff. I have never heard of anyone who could legally aquire a permit getting turned down except for a guy who had a big attitude and P.O.'d the local sheriif.

    I would prefer a shall issue with mandatory training of some type.
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    Should it be required? Basic safety, and introduction to the laws, but thats all. In Oklahoma (shall issue) its a 4 hour class + 50 rounds at a range. It is not a class designed to teach you how to shoot, or a class designed to teach you how to defend yourself. Its designed to help keep you out of jail and be safer than you were if you had never seen a gun.

    Do I think there is such a thing as to much training? You can never have enough quality training, this applies to anything in life, not just handguns.

    I don't agree with the staged license by caliber. A .22 can and will kill you just as dead as a .45.

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    On the one hand, the Constitution doesn't really say "Qualified individuals have the right to bear arms...." So I'm not sure it's really what the founding fathers intended to have qualification requirements.

    ON THE OTHER HAND, I saw two people in my qualification class (8 hours of training then a range test), who had NEVER shot a handgun before... in fact, had just bought their guns that morning. They squeaked by the range test (which incidentally is NOT that difficult), and got their permits.

    Personally, I feel that with the responsibility of carrying a loaded handgun comes a duty to be as skilled as possible. I should not ever be a danger to anyone, only to a BG who is trying to kill me. If I were a bad shot, and I accidentally killed an innocent bystander, how could I possibly live with myself knowing that I should have been practicing.

    I'm not sure where I stand on the laws, but I definitely feel that the CCW community should set an example of dedication and proficiency in everything that we do. (which I believe the vast majority of CCWers agree with)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protect View Post
    Should it be required? Basic safety, and introduction to the laws, ......... Its designed to help keep you out of jail and be safer than you were if you had never seen a gun.
    My point exactly, I think that this is all that should be required. You should be able to demonstrate safe handling and a Basic Understanding of the firearm and concealed carry laws of your state.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

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    Senior Member Array joleary223's Avatar
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    I'm a vet, so when I got my first licence in Florida I didn't have to take a course, but I did. I had no idea what the law was in regards to use of deadly force, every state is different, so I took the classroom part of the course. I didn't get out of it what I thought I should have, so I continued educating myself and still do. This forum is part of that education. The laws change, and it's my responsibility to stay informed. I'm getting older, whether I like it or not, so I must practice.
    The requirements for CC are just to get you started. You need to keep training and learning. If someone doesn't, then they are taking a risk and may end up in jail, or worse. Is it enough training? No. Training is a continuous process.

  11. #11
    Member Array denverd0n's Avatar
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    I don't think any training or licensing should be necessary. My reasoning is very simple: self-defense is one of the most basic of all human rights and therefore should not require any sort of government sanction; as such any government involvement is an invasion of "certain unalienable Rights."

    Is appropriate training a good idea? Of course it is! That should go without saying. Carrying a gun without proper training is a stupid thing to do. Period. End of discussion. But just because people SHOULD get training, that does not give the government the authority to invade this most basic of human rights and REQUIRE training!

    Do I like the idea that there might be people out there carrying guns without training? HELL NO!!! But they're out there already--they're called "criminals"--so I don't get to decide about that. What's more, I don't like the idea that people are on the internet posting ignorant, illogical rants about a whole slew of things, but that doesn't give me or the government the authority to invade THAT basic human right, either!

    No, neither training nor licensing should be a requirement before you are allowed to appropriately defend your life from lethal attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miggy View Post
    OK, what does the training cover. Not for nothing but I think 8 hours is excessive.
    CCW training should encompass and focus the law regarding carrying a gun. Training on proficiency is up to each individual.
    BINGO!!!!

    I am with you al the way Miggy. I was not required totake a class for my PA permit. Part of me wishes I had been required to because I had heard so many different people tell me different incorrect things about the law.

    I just took the TN class (for something to do last saturday while I am finishing up my may term course) and I felt it to be a little excessive. As they put it, the class was a mini NRA class. I would have liked to have taken the NRA course because I want more training but this course is for CCW and the more I think about it all it should cover is the laws.
    Mark

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Hmm I guess I'm on the minority side here. I don't believe training should be a REQUIREMENT. Now, I do however, believe that we should all take the responsibility and get said training and never stop. The problem though, is once you make training a requirement it has ceased being a right and is now only a mere priviledge. Self defense with a firearm is a DIRECT COROLLARY to the Right to Life as defined in the beginning of the US Declaration of Independence and also predates any and all documents including but not limited to the Declaration of Independance and the US Constitution. Any infringment of any sort on that, IMO, is ...immoral, criminal, and punishable by death. Harsh? No, not one bit, because effectively you have restricted a person's method of defending their own life and/or the lives of their family. At that point, as far as I'm concerned...your life is forfeit.

    This isn't just a second amendment issue. It's a basic human rights issue. To deprive a man of the means or tools of defense of life when he has caused you no harm is completely immoral. It's just as bad as putting a bullet in their head yourself.

    Hint: Read the Sig....then read the book...and if you haven't figured it out after that...no one can help you.
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    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    In a perfect America, marksmanship and legal ramifications of owning / using a firearm would be a required course in elementary school - with annual refresher courses thereafter. That solves the problem of instruction.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    Florida uses your discharge papers as a substitute for training. I agree that some training might be useful bur eight to ten hours might be out of some retirees budget due to liveing on a fixed income. You can have all kinds of training but without common sense it is useless.

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