Good Article: "Guns, the devil and God"

This is a discussion on Good Article: "Guns, the devil and God" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Starts off appearing to be anti-gun, but continue reading: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55700...

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Thread: Good Article: "Guns, the devil and God"

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array JohnKelly's Avatar
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    Good Article: "Guns, the devil and God"

    Starts off appearing to be anti-gun, but continue reading:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55700

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  3. #2
    New Member Array jcummons's Avatar
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    I am not sure the idea of separation of church and state is "mythical" but that is beside the point.

    The article was interesting but I simply didn't relate to his opening discussion of evil as a dark impulse that makes people jump off balconies or swerve into traffic.

    The author’s comments on McVeigh are good. Acts of terrorism will always lead to repression from the government. I don't know of a good example of a government that was overthrown through terrorism.

    I don't know how effective his religious references would be in convincing a Christian to change their mind about guns; those arguments don’t resonate to well with me. All in all, however, an interesting article.

  4. #3
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    I think the guy is totally touched in the head.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    He's pro-gun, but that's about all you can say. Obviously has no understanding of the First Amendment.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by article
    As a general rule, it is liberals who tend to oppose private citizens carrying guns around with them. As I said, this is mostly because they're full of suppressed anger and therefore project their own – and others' – evil onto inanimate objects so as to maintain the denial in which they live. After all, you can't possibly believe the illogical and immoral things liberals and leftists espouse unless you're full of trauma and repressed hatred. It takes lots of inner rage to distort reality sufficiently to believe it's OK to kill beautiful little babies in their mothers' wombs or to believe a malevolent chameleon like Hillary Clinton should be elected president of the United States and commander-in-chief of the most powerful military in world history.
    I think he does an excellent job describing the liberal mindset.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcummons
    I am not sure the idea of separation of church and state is "mythical" but that is beside the point.
    Separation of church & state was in the constitution of the former Soviet Union, but never ours. Thomas Jefferson used the term "a wall of separation between church & state" in a private letter to a seminary dean. He was implying that the government should not endorse a particular religion, that the church should be free from government control. The ACLU would has us to believe that it's in our constitution.

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    Member Array Sonic Misfit's Avatar
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    I couldn't get through the article. His idea that everyone that stands on the edge of a cliff feels an urge to jump is ridiculous. I know I've never had that feeling. On a cliff I'd be thinking more about whether it would make a good deer stand or is it just a nice view, while being careful that there was no one behind me.

    The only good thing is that he is pro-gun and that is fine.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy W. View Post
    Separation of church & state was in the constitution of the former Soviet Union, but never ours. Thomas Jefferson used the term "a wall of separation between church & state" in a private letter to a seminary dean. He was implying that the government should not endorse a particular religion, that the church should be free from government control. The ACLU would has us to believe that it's in our constitution.
    That's as silly as arguing that the right to keep and bear arms isn't an individual right. If you wish to live in a theocracy, please take your pick. There's any number of them out there.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    Thumbs down

    'Nuff said......
    Richard

    NRA Life Member

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    I don't know why people are being so hard on this guy. I thought it was a pretty good article. It's clearly coming from a strongly religious viewpoint, but that in no way invalidates his point - that people who fear guns do so because of emotional projection or the legitimate threat private arms represent to an oppressive power-hungry government. He touches on the good that armed individuals can do, and also rebuts the stereotypical owning-guns-means-I-don't-trust-God fallacy. All good stuff, as far as I'm concerned.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Andy W.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    That's as silly as arguing that the right to keep and bear arms isn't an individual right. If you wish to live in a theocracy, please take your pick. There's any number of them out there.
    No one implied anything about a theocracy, or that this nation was/is a Christian nation. The point of my reply is that there are misconceptions about Jefferson's quote.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    That's as silly as arguing that the right to keep and bear arms isn't an individual right. If you wish to live in a theocracy, please take your pick. There's any number of them out there.
    There are more choices than just theocracy or suppressed religion. Jefferson's point was that government should not be interfering in religious practice, hence the concept of the wall between them.

    It has since been turned around to mean that religious beliefs and values should not affect government, which is impossible as long as the government is composed of religious people (and yes, atheism is considered a religion).

    The only way to semi-accomplish that is to suppress the religions to the point that people will be afraid the bring their values up, which throws Jefferson's original point out the window.

    [edit]
    This is a different topic. That's all I'll say on the matter
    [/edit]
    Last edited by Bob The Great; May 17th, 2007 at 10:08 AM. Reason: disclaimer added

  13. #12
    Member Array Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    There are more choices than just theocracy or suppressed religion. Jefferson's point was that government should not be interfering in religious practice, hence the concept of the wall between them.

    It has since been turned around to mean that religious beliefs and values should not affect government, which is impossible as long as the government is composed of religious people (and yes, atheism is considered a religion).

    The only way to semi-accomplish that is to suppress the religions to the point that people will be afraid the bring their values up, which throws Jefferson's original point out the window.
    +1 Well put.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    There are more choices than just theocracy or suppressed religion. Jefferson's point was that government should not be interfering in religious practice, hence the concept of the wall between them.

    It has since been turned around to mean that religious beliefs and values should not affect government, which is impossible as long as the government is composed of religious people (and yes, atheism is considered a religion).

    The only way to semi-accomplish that is to suppress the religions to the point that people will be afraid the bring their values up, which throws Jefferson's original point out the window.
    Hogwash. The First Amendment says the government can neither establish religion nor interfere with its free exercise. Naturally, decisions of individuals who participate in government will be influenced by individual belief systems, ethical standards, and personal opinions. But religious tenets cannot be codified, nor one religion promoted by the government as preferential to another.

    It's not perfectly maintained, of course, any more than is the 2nd Amendment. People often bring up the existence of the Congressional chaplain, as an example of religion tolerated in government.

    I really don't have a problem with that, any more than I have a problem with military chaplains, who are there to make sure that our service men and women are able to freely exercise their religions, even when deployed on foreign soil where their own faith might not be supported (like Saudi Arabia, for example). However, there is not supposed to be discrimination or promotion of one religion over another. Hence the fact that Wiccans, for example, may now have their own religious symbol on their military tombstones, and Islamic worship services are conducted on military bases, where there are Muslims in the service (such as the mosque at Quantico).

    So there are a few areas where the letter of the Establishment Clause is not applied across the board. Same's true with the 2nd Amendment. I can't (unfortunately) purchase a new MP5 or M4 w/select fire, either. However, maintenance of secular government and prohibition of state-sponsored religion is the very antithesis of religious suppression. True religious freedom is only possible when the government stays out of it. On the whole, the Establishment Clause is doing a bang-up job of that, as its framers intended.

    And no, atheism is not a religion, by definition.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  15. #14
    Member Array Henry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    And no, atheism is not a religion, by definition.
    That's not really true in the context given. Atheism is the belief that there is no god, theism is the belief that there is a god. Both are beliefs, neither can be proven. For example Secular Humanism is officially recognized as a religion, but it is atheistic.
    Last edited by Henry; May 17th, 2007 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Better wording

  16. #15
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    Steady on the religion deal folks ... remember Bumper does not want religious stuff on CC. Keep it as superficial as possible.
    Chris - P95
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