Recognizing the BG

This is a discussion on Recognizing the BG within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It is (should be) a given that we all try and avoid situations and trouble, and most BG's raise alarms probably. However ...... I am ...

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Thread: Recognizing the BG

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    Recognizing the BG

    It is (should be) a given that we all try and avoid situations and trouble, and most BG's raise alarms probably.

    However ...... I am always aware of that animal - ''the ultimate con man'' ....... the guy (or woman in fact) who is SO convincing that they appear normal, and some.

    I'd be interested to hear LE views on this, as - while we should not be stereotyping to excess - we all do to some degree and have to. I am interested as to how many cops spot the BG's better than the rest of us might. There is always ''spidey sense'' and of course body language clues etc but .... I have come across at least one person (not a pure BG per se but scam artist) who I am sure would defy recognition by about anyone at all.

    I visualize a scene where a guy in smart suit and well groomed enters an establishment - only to be there to rob, and maybe armed. The sorta guy most would ignore. I guess vigilance has to be total of course but - always hoping to learn more clues!
    Chris - P95
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    Chris to use your favorite saying this is one where sometimes we have to "Play it as we see it"
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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    Haha touché

    Yes indeed that will be it most times but - I wonder if there are clues many of us would not pick up - which LE can - thru shere experience.
    Chris - P95
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    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    It isnt stereotyping, profiling or anything other than making a logical assumption based on your life's experiances.

    I always look the the nervous guy, the twitchy guy or the pro, that scans and who's head is on a swivel.
    Most people out in public are out for a purpose, not just milling around doing nothing.

    Right before a violent crime happens, the BG will rehearse the act he is abot to commit in his head. As he does this, his hand will most likely make subtle movement as he his playing out his future actions inside his head.
    If one or two guys enter a store/bank etc., and others in the party remain outside, be alert.
    Look for clothing that doesnt match weather for the day... this indicates drug use or he is hiding something.
    Last edited by SIXTO; May 17th, 2007 at 12:06 AM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Ya might be on to something Chris.

    I can usually tell within the first few minutes someone is in the bar whether they will be walking out on their own, or "flying through the air with the greatest of ease" out the door with an assist by me. Sometimes people just give off a certain vibe and make the "spidey sense" go off.

    I could give you my nerdy criminology based picture of a criminal, but that is based on trends, and there are almost always exceptions.
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    I always look the the nervous guy, the twitchy guy or the pro, that scans and who's head is on a swivel.
    Nervous with a head on a swivel and twitching by touching their side, be nice to the newbies at Wal-mart Sixto, they just want some Nachos.
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    I always look the the nervous guy, the twitchy guy or the pro, that scans and who's head is on a swivel.
    Haha - but Sixto - that could be ''one of us'' - being hyper vigilant and on edge!

    True tho for most part I'd say yes, that sums up a lot .... but to reiterate - I am concerned over the BG who is so good - he is plain ''normal'', until he acts. Let's say - we can probably spot 95% and more - it is the small fraction that gives me cause for ponder!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Haha - Buckeye got in first!
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
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    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry View Post

    True tho for most part I'd say yes, that sums up a lot .... but to reiterate - I am concerned over the BG who is so good - he is plain ''normal'', until he acts. Let's say - we can probably spot 95% and more - it is the small fraction that gives me cause for ponder!

    Ahh OK. The feet will tell you what a person is going to do. When a person is about to move, the feet always move first. This may or may not indicate a problem, but it will tell you if someone is planning a rapid exit.
    Everybody has spidey senses, you just need to develop them. People watching is great practice.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Now that is a good point Sixto thx . yes the feet. Hard for folks to fake that one. Excellent - just the sorta thing I was after.

    I think most of us have a spidey sense - whether enough tho and accurate enough is another matter. People watching is a hobby of mine, as I suspect it may be for many
    Chris - P95
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    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Good thread and comments. Hands and feet, good info to have. Though I guess if you think about it it makes sense and most would agree with it I don't know how much I look at them seriously.

    How about eyes, is there a difference between someone being aware and scanning the room (perhaps a CCWer) and those bent on doing bad?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyW View Post
    Good thread and comments. Hands and feet, good info to have. Though I guess if you think about it it makes sense and most would agree with it I don't know how much I look at them seriously.

    How about eyes, is there a difference between someone being aware and scanning the room (perhaps a CCWer) and those bent on doing bad?
    Yeah, a BG does more looking than scanning. I.E. He looks out the windows/doors to see whats outside, instead of skimming the whole area.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Let's think of this from another angle, shall we?

    Chris,
    It seems to me that you are talking about the groomed, professional type of criminal who will have mastered his twitch and unease probably long ago.

    In the thread titled "Have you ever been a victim," I shared my story and let me tell you there were some people who preyed on me that looked so normal and acted so clean when the truth came out YEARS later people were in complete shock. In public, they showed ABSOLUTELY NO signs of their intent. The casual or even the alert observer would probably never pick up on one single thing that was going wrong. They were good, they were experienced, and so fabulous at their act that not even I knew what was going on until it was happening.

    They take their time. They aren't going to rush you, they don't have to. They will establish a relationship of some kind so that they can have easy access to you whenever they want it. They will be friendly, talkative and make easy and steady eye contact with you. They will not be scared of the fact that you carry a gun, even if they do find out, because they plan on getting UNDER your defenses and surprising you so much you won't even know where or what is going on.

    They are sincere (or at least they look like it) and they seem genuine and decent. They may even be active in a church, wear suits and talk about the ministries they are involved in. They will talk about music and have very normal and seemingly "healthy" interests and ideals (Unless you somehow get invited into their basement and see everything they are REALLY hiding, but that won't happen.. They'll want to get active in YOUR life, not let you get active in theirs).

    They talk a FABULOUS talk.

    A person can lie about a number of things but a sad fact I learned at a very young age is that when they are about to go for their mark, the EYES NEVER LIE!!!

    They can hide it all the way up until even a MINUTE before they plan to strike, but when they get it in their head that it's time, their eyes change.. ALWAYS.

    Because they aren't afraid and they KNOW they've duped you, they don't look nervous or scared or twitchy, they look determined and have almost a tunnel-vision glee to their eyes (God, this gives me chills even thinking about it) though their face remains calm and serious. They probably won't be swiveling their head too much because they planned for that moment and they know that it's now or never.

    They may even be talking to you, asking you what's wrong, trying to calm you and reassure you, but the face will make your skin crawl and your instincts scream that something's not right... listen to those instincts, they may save your life.

    It will shock you because you've never seen such a look before from this person. It will shock you because you LIKED them and thought they were your friend. It will shock you because you never thought this person could or would hurt you.

    They strike fast and they plan for YOU because they have gotten to KNOW you.

    Resistance is fought against to an unknown level. It depends on how much preparation they have put into getting what they want. The more preparation they have put in, the more they will resist YOUR resistance. They aren't about to go away empty handed when they've worked you for months and months, even if it means taking that pound of flesh.

    Yes, watch for the twitch, watch the feet, stay vigilant, but also be wary of people who are eager to be your friend and always watch their eyes.. Eyes ARE the windows to a man's soul and sometimes we get to glimpse how evil it can be in there. That's the time to act.. RIGHT THEN!!
    Last edited by limatunes; May 17th, 2007 at 09:25 AM.

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    Dang, Limatunes! I gotta say I really enjoy reading your posts, because they are so, so, so, on the mark!
    "None who have always been free can understand
    the terrible fascinating power of the hope of freedom
    to those who are not free."

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    One of the things I keyed on when I was doing security work seems kind of contradictory. What I noticed was there would be some BG's (usually with less experience) that would keep looking at uniformed security/LEOs in the area to see where we were and if we were looking at them. The ones with a bit more experience would make a point of not looking at us. These were even more obvious than the ones that would stare. If you see someone that is carefully taking everything in, but wont look directly at a LEO, there is probably a reason. The slick ones were the ones that would watch us in reflections in windows, chrome fixtures etc.
    I also looked for deviations from normal social dynamics. Three guys coming in to a place together like they are in a group but not talking to each other. Or they come in talking and as soon as they clear the door they split up but then just loiter in different areas. If you have the group dynamics that are wrong and then the individual's cues on top of that, something is up. If it's a store they might just be shoplifting, if its a bank, its time to leave!

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    This is a great thread. I would consider myself to be a fairly unexperienced person in the ways of crime and criminals, and I was raised in a pretty quiet neighborhood, so I don't have a lot of experience with dealing with these kind of people. So this is one area I am trying to work on. I constantly work on being alert, yet not too obvious. I'm also working on collecting as much information as possible when I look around me, without staring for a long time at people. I'm hoping this thread really expands to give me more help in this area; Limatunes and mcp1810 have given some good advice based on experience already.

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