Warning Sheep alert!!

Warning Sheep alert!!

This is a discussion on Warning Sheep alert!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just can believe how stupid some sheep can be. http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...515006/-1/news Passer-by’s use of deadly force in question By JOELLE FARRELL, Concord Monitor Published: Tuesday, ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array fsufanaz's Avatar
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    Warning Sheep alert!!

    I just can believe how stupid some sheep can be.

    http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/...515006/-1/news

    Passer-by’s use of deadly force in question


    By JOELLE FARRELL, Concord Monitor

    Published: Tuesday, May. 15, 2007

    Police officers interviewed Monday said they admired the actions of Gregory Floyd, who last Friday shot and killed a man who had shot Franconia Police Cpl. Bruce McKay and ran him over with his car.

    Allenstown Police Chief Shaun Mulholland said he hopes a passer-by like Floyd would help him if he were in a similar circumstance.

    “In small town America, it’s good to know that citizens are there to help us,” Mulholland said. “Because we can’t do this job alone.”

    But some citizens think Floyd overstepped boundaries when he used lethal force to stop Liko Kenney, 24, who shot McKay after an altercation following a traffic stop.
    “No one has a right to take a life, regardless of what happens,” said Beth Starbird, 24, of Boscawen. “He should’ve tried to stop it or called for help.”

    Kevin Miller, 18, a business major at Plymouth State College, said Floyd couldn’t have known who was at fault in the situation.

    “How do you know the truth?” said Miller, who was out with friends at White Park in
    Concord on Monday. “How does he know what really happened?”

    Floyd, 49, of Easton, was driving with his son on Route 116 in Franconia last Friday evening when he came upon McKay and Kenney, according to the state attorney general’s office. Floyd saw Kenney shoot McKay four times. When McKay collapsed, Kenney backed his car up over McKay, pinning him.

    Floyd tried to use his car as a barricade between Kenney and McKay, according to police investigators. When that failed, he picked up McKay’s gun from the ground and approached Kenney’s vehicle. Floyd told his son, also named Gregory Floyd, to use McKay’s police radio to call for help.

    Floyd aimed the gun at Kenney and told him to put his gun down. When Kenney did not drop his gun, Floyd shot him, according to police investigators.

    Several police officers praised Floyd’s actions. If Floyd had not intervened and instead simply called for help, Kenney could have driven off and hurt more people, said Dave McCarthy, former executive major of the New Hampshire state police.
    “This is a completely out of control situation,” McCarthy said. “If this guy (Floyd) doesn’t take action and (Kenney) goes down the road into a school house, what are we going to think about it then?”

    McCarthy, who also served as the northern division commander for the state police during his 28 years in law enforcement, said if Floyd had called for help, it may not have come before Kenney got away. Kenney could have also shot and killed Floyd, he said.

    “You’re talking about Franconia,” he said. “There are areas up there where the radio doesn’t work, you can’t get reception.” He added, “The next police officer on scene would have done the same. I don’t see anything wrong in what this person did.”

    Mulholland said he once needed help from passers-by when a drunken man resisted arrest and started fighting with him. They ended up wrestling and rolling on the ground, he said. The man was much larger than Mulholland, then a police officer in Raymond, and Mulholland knew that even if he could call for backup, it would take some time to arrive.

    Luckily for Mulholland, three passers-by came to his aid and helped subdue the man.

    “We don’t have legions of police,” he said. “There’s no question about it. We do need help from the public.”

    Some citizens interviewed Monday wondered why Floyd didn’t shoot Kenney in the leg or the arm, injuring him instead of killing him. But officers say if Kenney was sitting in his car, Floyd’s only clear shot may have been from the shoulder up. Floyd also reportedly served in the Marine Corps. Members of the military and law enforcement are trained to shoot at the center of the body, and even then, they sometimes miss, McCarthy said. Aiming for a limb increases the risk of missing all together.

    “There’s no such thing as shooting to wound,” McCarthy said.

    Hillsboro Police Capt. David Roarick said, “We shoot to stop the threat. We’re not trained to shoot to injure people. Had it been another police officer, they would have shot to prevent the threat.”

    But many local residents interviewed agreed that Floyd acted justly.
    “I probably would have done the same – I hope I would, anyway,” said Dennis Roy, 38, of Keene.

    George Oickle, 38, a network administrator for the Coca-Cola Company who lives in Gilmanton, said if he came upon the same scene, he would assume Kenney would have no trouble killing again.

    “If the guy reloads the gun, he’s going to use it,” Oickle said. “He just shot a cop. What’s going to stop him from shooting me?”

    Still, Oickle said the story of what happened Friday still doesn’t make sense to him. “If (Kenney) ran the cop over, he was on his way out,” he said. “So how does (Floyd) have time to stop him and shoot him?”

    Greg Fischer, 34, a mortgage broker from Penacook, said he admires Floyd’s bravery but doesn’t know if he could do the same in the circumstances, because he has two young daughters, ages 3 and 6, at home.

    “If I was a passer-by, there would be a cell phone call and concern for the officer that was down, certainly,” he said. “But I don’t think I’d have it in me.”

    I can't believe some of the comments from these people. How sad.

    Ed
    US Navy Retired Silent Service

    The real test of a man is not when he plays the role he wants for himself, but when he plays the role destiny has for him.
    Vaclav Havel


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I read an article where some people are claiming mackay was a bully and an abusive officer. The more research I do seems to find out that they are freinds of the deceased perp.

    The pastor and other communtiy leaders say mackay was a stand up officer.

    Before the incident three officers were trying to restrain said deceased scumbag in a park and he grabbed officer mackay by the groin as hard as he could druing teh scuffle and mackay punched him in the face and "allegedly" broke his jaw. I say he deserved it. You DON'T grab another man by the jewels and expect not to get extreme force in return. Others are saying Mackay was abusive, I say get violently grabbed by the jimmy and see how you react.

    This Lilo Kenny guy sounds was a hotheaded idiot who proved it by shooting a police officer and running him over during a traffic stop.

    Kudos to the citizen who did the world a favor by eradicating his patheic existence from this planet.


    edit: I found the article http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/05/17/tow....ap/index.html
    One officer said Kenney grabbed McKay in the groin and that McKay reacted by punching Kenney in the face. Kenney's family and many in town say McKay broke Kenney's jaw that night, but Grafton County Attorney Rick St. Hilaire said Kenney's jaw was not broken.

    Kenney could have gone to prison after pleading guilty to resisting arrest and assaulting McKay. But he got 15 days in jail, time served, when McKay asked for leniency, according to St. Hilaire.
    He even gave him a break. Imagine that.

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    Good for Floyd. Not only did he take action but he utilized the resources around him (telling his son to call on the radio) and picking up the fallen officer's gun. Most would have done all they could with what they had, he looked outside of the box.

    I hope he's getting a HECK of a lot more praise than negative remarks.

    He's got my praise for SURE!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array TonyW's Avatar
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    Kevin Miller, 18, a business major at Plymouth State College, said Floyd couldn’t have known who was at fault in the situation.
    These are the type of attitudes that totally baffle me. The cop was in uniform and performing his duties! How would you NOT know who was at fault? Good grief.

    I think this is my attitude:

    “I probably would have done the same – I hope I would, anyway,” said Dennis Roy, 38, of Keene.
    The police can't be everywhere and are not some magic that makes bad guys go away or behave. We all are responsible for helping to police our communities.
    <a target="_top" href="http://www.cybernations.net/default.asp?Referrer=TonyW"><img src="http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd188/18932471/imgad2-1.png" border="0"></a>

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    Member Array Henry's Avatar
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    It is amazing what a lack of understanding some of these people have regarding defending yourself and others, and of stopping criminal intent (ie: "No one has a right to take a life, regardless of what happens"), either that or all those people rejecting what Gregory Floyd did are all related to the BG!

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    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Way to go, Greg! It's very fortunate he had the time and ability to secure and utilize the officer's weapon. Too bad he wasn't carrying his own.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    “No one has a right to take a life, regardless of what happens,” said Beth Starbird, 24, of Boscawen.
    Tell that to bad guys - and see if they listen In a sense a bad guy gives up his rights to life by killing a good guy.

    “He should’ve tried to stop it or called for help.”
    Yeah right - which ignores the fact that some things can only be stopped and dealt with by immediate action ..... and not five minutes later when the cavalry arrives to an increased body count.

    I as always want to put the folks who make these statements in a severe situation and see how they relish being unarmed and waiting on a call to bring help.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    It really gets to me how some people can be so out of touch with the real world. In their world, Superman comes to the rescue and saves them from a violent situation. They discuss and debate with the B/G about the things that went wrong with his life and how it must have been some one else's fault that they are doing bad things. They want you to shoot the gun out of the perp's hand and rehabilitate them into model citizens. Even if it was a fight with a LEO that was warranted ( however unlikely ), you aren't going to shoot him 4 times and back a car over him. Some people will never get it, they'd let someone shoot their family and anyone else. Lethal force is the last resource used, but they look at anyone who will to use the last means of defense as something from a alien planet. And heaven help anyone that would get involved in protecting others life. (Rant Off)

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    Member Array jmany's Avatar
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    Well said TonyW. I don't know what I would have done in that situation. I would like to think it be something like what Mr. Floyd did. I strongly believe that everybody is responsible for the safety of the community they live in. The way some people think just completely blows my mind. If the BG in this situation would have driven off and killed somebody else they would all be complaining that Mr. Floyd didn't do enough to stop him. It's a no-win situation.

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    No one has a right to take a life, regardless of what happens,” said Beth Starbird, 24, of Boscawen. “He should’ve tried to stop it or called for help.”

    Kevin Miller, 18, a business major at Plymouth State College, said Floyd couldn’t have known who was at fault in the situation.

    “How do you know the truth?” said Miller, who was out with friends at White Park in
    Concord on Monday. “How does he know what really happened?”
    How could anyone in there right mind think this away? I just don't get it. I know some like to call them sheep, but to me complete idiot seems to fit a little better.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by portsider44 View Post
    How could anyone in there right mind think this away? I just don't get it. I know some like to call them sheep, but to me complete idiot seems to fit a little better.
    They believe revisionist history, watch "Extreme" sports and consider it Manly, are in touch with their feminity, and don't make any difference in the world other than forcing their irrelativity on the rest of us through sheer numbers.

    In The Olde Dayes, they were subjugated slave artists. We have progressed beyond that.................................unfortunately .

  12. #12
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    Job well done, Gregory Floyd.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

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    Member Array mmwb's Avatar
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    I sometimes think that it is unfair to sheep to use them as a reference for some people. Sheep are a stupid as rocks, but by comparison to some people...

  14. #14
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    “No one has a right to take a life, regardless of what happens,” said Beth Starbird, 24, of Boscawen. “He should’ve tried to stop it or called for help.”
    Well, seems to me like he did try to stop it... and succeeded.

    People like Gregory Floyd prove there's actual humans in humankind.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by portsider44 View Post
    How could anyone in there right mind think this away? I just don't get it. I know some like to call them sheep, but to me complete idiot seems to fit a little better.
    Yeah, I'm guilty of that a lot...Sometimes I think we do a disservice to real sheep.... IDTen-T definitely fits the bill.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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