Several People Charged in Probe of Guns Used in Trolley Square Shooting (merged)

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May 17th, 2007, 07:12 PM
Spionen

Several People Charged in Probe of Guns Used in Trolley Square Shooting (merged)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1232158

Yep, criminals will always find a way to obtain weapons.

This article is a follow up to the Salt Lake City, Utah mall shooting and the idiots who got the shooter his weapons.
May 17th, 2007, 07:21 PM
P95Carry

Here is a good example of existing laws being prosecuted - showing as we know ... there is no need for more re gun control.
May 17th, 2007, 07:27 PM
mmwb

""If these individuals had followed federal firearms laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these fire arms to use in the tragedy that unfolded at Trolley Square on February 12.""

EXACTLY!
May 17th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Colin

No the anti's logic will be: The laws aren't tough enough so we must make more to ensure the collective guilt of breaking so many laws at once will stop the bad guy........
May 17th, 2007, 10:13 PM
dr_cmg

I have a question about this:

Quote:

A grand jury also returned an indictment against Westley Hill, a licensed federal firearms dealer. Hill, who works at Sportsman's Fast Cash Pawn in West Valley, allegedly sold Talovic a pistol grip shotgun on November 13 and failed to keep a record of the transaction.

Because the firearm had a pistol grip, it is not classified as a rifle or a shotgun, and therefore cannot be legally sold to someone under 21. Investigators plan to look into the store's records to see if there's a pattern of illegal sales.

The second paragraph makes no sense. Federal law defines a shotgun as having a smooth bore, being over 26" in length, and having a barrel over 18" in length. Unless the pistol grip reduced the total length to less than 26" it does not enter into the equation. If it was less than 26" then it falls under the category of "any other weapon." Which is a different matter altogether. If it was over 26" then nothing in the Utah law nor federal statutes make it illegal to sell it to someone under 21. The age on the shotgun is 18 in both Utah and Federal law.

I'm not trying to say that the dealer is not guilty of something, but it appears from the story that he is guilty of not keeping the paperwork. This is a federal violation, but not a major one unless it is shown to be a pattern.
May 18th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Sergeant Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmwb

""If these individuals had followed federal firearms laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these fire arms to use in the tragedy that unfolded at Trolley Square on February 12.""

EXACTLY!

I don't work in Utah, but i'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that they have a law prohibiting MURDER.....
May 18th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Janq

Several People Charged in Probe of Guns Used in Trolley Square Shooting

As reported via KSL TV 5:

Several People Charged in Probe of Guns Used in Trolley Square Shooting

May 17th, 2007 @ 6:00pm
Read it in Spanish

Team Coverage

Authorities traced the weapons used by a gunman during his shooting rampage at Trolley Square.

Three people face federal weapons charges. A fourth has been charged with making false statements.

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/129/12903/1290303.jpg

Authorities also revealed one of them knew Sulejman Talovic was going to commit a crime with the handgun.

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/128/12882/1288296.jpg

When Sulejman Talovic went on a shooting rampage at Trolley Square, he was armed with a 38-caliber handgun, and a pistol grip shotgun. Investigators were able to trace where he got those weapons. Investigators say the weapon was reported missing in Wyoming and apparently exchanged hands several times. They say Talovic asked Mackenzie Hunter for help getting a gun. Federal prosecutors say Hunter then contacted Brenden Brown, who had the handgun. The two allegedly arranged to sell the gun to Talovic at a fast food restaurant in Salt Lake City. It happened sometime between June 16 and July 28 of last year, when Talovic was 17 years old.

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/128/12897/1289705.jpg

Talovic used that handgun to shoot one of his first victims. U.S. Attorney for Utah Brett Tolman says, "The indictment alleges that Mr. Hunter knew the person he was transferring the gun to and had reasonable cause to believe that that person was a juvenile. The indictment further alleges that Hunter had reasonable cause to know that the juvenile intended to carry or otherwise posses, discharge or otherwise use this firearm in the commission of a crime of violence; although Mr. Hunter believed that it may be used to commit a bank robbery." Tolman also says, "Mr. Talovic, who was 17 and a juvenile when the handgun was transferred to him during the summer of 2006, had the gun in his possession until he used it at Trolley Square in February, 2007."

Prosecutors also charged Matthew Hautala, for making false statements.

A grand jury also returned an indictment against Westley Hill, a licensed federal firearms dealer. Hill, who works at Sportsman's Fast Cash Pawn in West Valley, allegedly sold Talovic a pistol grip shotgun on November 13 and failed to keep a record of the transaction.

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/128/12895/1289593.jpg

Because the firearm had a pistol grip, it is not classified as a rifle or a shotgun, and therefore cannot be legally sold to someone under 21. Investigators plan to look into the store's records to see if there's a pattern of illegal sales.

Tolman says," There is no evidence to support that any of the individuals in the indictment had any information or reason to believe Talovic would use firearms he obtained in a commission of the crime at Trolley Square

He says, "If these individuals had followed federal firearms laws now in existence, Mr. Talovic would not have had these fire arms to use in the tragedy that unfolded at Trolley Square on February 12."

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/129/12912/1291236.jpg

Sulejman Talovic shot and killed five people and injured four others at the Trolley Square Mall.

Hautala is in the U.S. Army. He is currently is South Carolina. He will return to Utah to face federal charges. The other three appeared in court this morning and pleaded "not guilty."

http://media.bonnint.net/slc/128/12883/1288310.jpg

The story can be found at; http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1232158

- Janq

Thoughts:
Gun control laws did not and could not prevent this tragedy nor can it make all people all the time act right and follow the law. If these people had followed the current laws on the books state and federal, in addition to some damn uncommon sense, then Sulejman Talovic would not have been able to gain access to any of the weapons he used to attack the Trolley mall.