Negligent/Accidental Discharges?

[Griblik]

Hello all,

I just read the post on the "Sobering Experience". Scary stuff.... It really got me thinking; I follow "The Rules" religiously, and while I grew up around guns to some extent, I'm new to carrying most every day, and still getting comfortable with it. But hearing about discharges among some of the more experienced crowd, really drives home the point of "It's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'."

What I'm getting at............. I'm certain this is a sensitive subject for many, but I'm wondering if any of you have any accidental or negligent discharge stories you'd be willing to share? I imagine this may have been discussed previously, but in searching older posts I really didn't find many. For me at least, when I read Jeep's story, it really made me that much more aware of something to watch for; a Practical Application of The Rules, of sorts. Other stories might have the same effect for me at least, and probably some of us other "newbies", and maybe even some of the veterans..?

For any of you that have experiences you'd be willing to share, I'm curious if they're 100% user error, or if equipment failure can come into play as well? As totally irrational as I suspect it is, I think I'm just about more afraid of my PT111 "spontaneously" discharging in my hand (or the back of my pants!!) through no fault of my own as I am of encountering a scenario where I'd need to use my weapon! Especially with my "cocked and locked" SA/DA Taurus - "cocked and locked" just goes against everything I'd ever learned growing up about firearms safety, even though I know a good percentage of our crowd swear by it.

So..... thoughts? Stories? Advice? Reassurance for the newbie that he's not gonna shoot himself in the with his "cocked and locked" firearm so long as "The Rules" are obeyed judiciously? I appreciate your feedback.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Bark'n]

I am sure that occasionally some are due to defective or broken weapon. Nothing is 100% in this business.

Suffice it to say, that many a TV's, Stereo's and Air Conditioners have selflessly given their lives in the name of dry fire training!

[rstickle]

Actually you can do a search on the subject. The one you read isn't the first one that's been 'fesed up to here, although it is one of the scariest!

[peacefuljeffrey]

Hello all,

I just read the post on the "Sobering Experience". Scary stuff.... It really got me thinking; I follow "The Rules" religiously, and while I grew up around guns to some extent, I'm new to carrying most every day, and still getting comfortable with it. But hearing about discharges among some of the more experienced crowd, really drives home the point of "It's not a matter of 'if', but 'when'."

I don't agree with that last statement.

[QKShooter]

It is not "if" but, when - and...."when" - need not never happen.
You should not fear your firearm.
You should become intimately familiar with it and then respect it.

Concerning "Daily Carry" if you are a newbie.
Find a place in your home/apartment where you will not be distracted with a safe direction for your muzzle - relax- think - & then prep your firearm for your daily carry.
Be mindful of your muzzle and your index finger.

Once your firearm is on your body then make it a point never to fidget with it.
Keep it to yourself.
Do not show it to others.
Do not allow others to handle your carry firearm.
Keep it holstered.

When you come home do the same in reverse.

Buy a proper holster for your firearm.
Do not carry in a generic "one size fits all" holster.

If you are shooting and your firearm jams. Do not panic.
STOP - Think about what you are going to do before you do it.
And then - be mindful of your muzzle direction and do what you need to do to clear it.

You should be just fine.
Do not talk yourself into believing that you will suffer a ND just because others may have negligently discharged.
It is not something that is contagious.

[peacefuljeffrey]

I am sure that occasionally some are due to defective or broken weapon. Nothing is 100% in this business.

Suffice it to say, that many a TV's, Stereo's and Air Conditioners have selflessly given their lives in the name of dry fire training!

There's no excuse for that, whatsoever. Why would one EVER -- EVER -- pull the trigger on a gun they have not verified was empty of all ammunition immediately prior?!

I don't know why Griblik is worried that his PT111 could just "spontaneously discharge" in his hand. Is your finger kept off the trigger until you mean to fire? Yes? Then the gun is not going to "spontaneously" anything.

I love it how people are always saying that their gun "just went off" when they were "cleaning" it. A large part of me believes this is just the standard cover story for someone who screwed up, knows it, and knows everyone else knows it. Because really, what person who knows enough about guns to start cleaning one doesn't understand the concept of unloading it first?

Any gun that "just went off" was FIRED by its handler -- except in the vanishingly rare case of a mechanical malfunction. And even in the case of that, there is still no excuse for destroying anything of value because of where the gun should have been pointed at all times.

[Ranger]

I've never had an ND/AD with a handgun, but when I was 15 or 16, my Ithica Featherweight 16 guage shotgun fired randomly while no finger was in the trigger guard and the safety was engaged. I was walking with the gun at a relaxed "port arms" while grouse hunting, when BOOM!, it discharged.

Needless to say, the day's hunt ended immediately. The gun was completely disassembled and nothing was found wrong. No foreign matter. No worn or broken parts. No exessive dirt. The gun was cleaned, reassembled, and cautiously put back into service without incident over the span of another 24 or 25 years.

As best as I can guess, when the action was operated to load that shell, there was some "partially set" effect that allowed something to slip without the trigger being depressed. The gun has a terribly smooth action, and I suspect that I racked the pump too softly. After that incident, I have always been firm with my sweet 16.

I'm sure some will say, "I'd not carry that gun again." But, I am a stickler about the 4 rules and since the muzzle doesn't cover anything I'm not shooting, I felt the risk was acceptable to retain what amounted to my small game hunting "right arm." The subsequent performance of the gun has validated this position.

[rodc13]

I also disagree that an ND or AD is invevitable. In over 45 years of shooting and handling wild variety of, I've never had it happen. Ever.

Peaceful Jeffrey & QKShooter both made excellent points regarding the 4 rules, and the reality that weapons do not just "go off". Keep your mind clear and focused and your weapons in good working order. There are no excuses.

[incredipete]

Like I said in the sobering experience thread, I had an ND at the shooting range, and fortunately the bullet went semi-down range. I was lucky.

I was very new to shooting, and it was 100% my own error. It's not a mistake I will make again. I'm much more experienced now, which means I pay much closer attention and I follow the 4 basic safety rules as if my life depended on it... because it does.

[sisco]

I was 14 years old, home alone, decided to get Dads 9mm Llama out. I knew this gun, had shot it and could field strip it. Dropped the mag, racked the slide and let it go home. Unloaded now, right?

Pointed it at the far wall of the living room and pulled the trigger. KABOOM!

When I opened my eyes there was a hole in the living room wall about 9mm in diameter. Turned on the light in my parents bedroom I could hardly see for the plaster dust. There was another larger hole in the wall there, about an inch above the dresser mirror. There was a gash in the ceiling about a foot long and another large hole in the opposite wall. Outside the house a chunk of slate siding the size of a baseball was missing. Don't let anyone tell you 9mm ball ammo lacks penetration!
I tried to make up a good lie to tell the parents when they got home but settled on the truth.

What I failed to do was visually check the chamber.

Besides learning how to patch plaster I learned to always, always check the chamber before assuming a gun is unloaded.

I still have the Llama, I found out some time back why it was such a jam-o-matic. It's chambered for 9mm Largo, not 9mm Luger. Never heard of Largo until then.

[azchevy]

25 years of firearm handling and use. Never had a ND. I am as careful with my firearms as I was the day I learned firearm safety

[incredipete]

My problem was I taught myself how to use a handgun... I basically bought a gun, read the manual, and went to the range. BANG!

Since then, I've taken many a marksmanship and defensive shooting class. You can never learn or practice too much!

[Bark'n]

There's no excuse for that, whatsoever. Why would one EVER -- EVER -- pull the trigger on a gun they have not verified was empty of all ammunition immediately prior?!

I don't know why Griblik is worried that his PT111 could just "spontaneously discharge" in his hand. Is your finger kept off the trigger until you mean to fire? Yes? Then the gun is not going to "spontaneously" anything.

I love it how people are always saying that their gun "just went off" when they were "cleaning" it. A large part of me believes this is just the standard cover story for someone who screwed up, knows it, and knows everyone else knows it. Because really, what person who knows enough about guns to start cleaning one doesn't understand the concept of unloading it first?

Any gun that "just went off" was FIRED by its handler -- except in the vanishingly rare case of a mechanical malfunction. And even in the case of that, there is still no excuse for destroying anything of value because of where the gun should have been pointed at all times.

I think you may have read too much into my post or misinterpreted the intent.

[jeep45238]

More often than not, it's user error. The mechanical faults can also be pointed as human error, for them not being noticed or repaired properly.

I'm glad my experiance made you think a lot harder.

[PaulG]

peacefuljeffrey - I think we are all sorta' singing out of the same book.

I believe that your attitude of: why would anyone ever pull the trigger on a gun they have not made certain is unloaded,

is the reason that your "when" may not happen.

I have said on another post that it is "when" not "if" you will have an ND.

What I mean by that is simply, we are all human and if we don't remain vigilant and careful, it can happen to us.

I am always extremely careful because I know it CAN happen to me. That's why I believe that it won't ever happen to me.

If I ever start feeling that it cannot happen to me, I will really start to worry.

Wow. I just reread what I just wrote and if any of you guys can understand what I said, be worried; be very worried.