This is a discussion on Statement of the Century, Lets Discuss. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My Granddad sold all his guns when him and my Grandmother where in their late 70's. I ask him why? He said because about the ...
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My Granddad sold all his guns when him and my Grandmother where in their late 70's. I ask him why? He said because about the only thing he would need a gun for was if someone threated their life, and they had lived a full life and was ready to meet their maker and the other one there wasn't ready or he would not be in their house. And he was removing the means of changing his mind if it should ever happen.
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While the quote is not a sentiment I share, it does not bother me because its author acknowledges that it is unpopular and his viewpoint alone. It is unlikely that his view is going to cause me any grief. The real problem is when those with that view start imposing it upon the rest of us through laws.
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These people live in a dream world. IT would be nice if it were a perfect world.
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That's pretty damn selfish, IMHO. Okay, fine, if you they don't value their own life enough to fight for it - I'm okay with that. But someone who is going to kill them is probably going to kill someone else, too.
Congratulations, enabler. These people make me sick.
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"It is enough to note, as we have observed, that the American people have considered the handgun to be the quintessential self-defense weapon." - Justice Scalia, SCOTUS - DC v Heller - 26 JUN 2008
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I've said that before. It sounds noble. I think when someone says this they mean they value life. I think the implication is that he values life more than a person who carries a gun.I'd rather be killed than take another life any day, no matter how tortured they are. Perhaps not a popular view, but it's mine.
It's a little naive.
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People like that make my angry. They don't understand that the world has people in it that want to do them harm. I had a girlfriend at one time like that. Her mother was the same way. I asked her why she'd want to condemn her child to death because she didn't want to protect them. She blurted out without thinking...if anyone touched him I'd kill 'em where they stood. Then she turned red and walked away.
I want to believe in peoples innate goodness as well...I just plan for their innate badness to show up when I'm around...that's why I carry.
"If I was an extremist, our founding fathers would all be extremists," he said. "Without them, we wouldn't have our independence. We'd be a disarmed British system of feudal subjectivity."
Talk is cheap...walk the walk...then we'll see...
Stay armed...stay safe!
ret
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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NRA Life Member
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Don't let statements like this bother anybody. This is what makes this country free! We can choose to fight back, and we can choose not to. I choose to fight back against threats to my life, and for my right to choose the way I believe. I also choose to fight back for those whose beliefs do not allow it.
I can understand how some people feel this way, and I fully respect their beliefs. I am a strong Christian that is somewhat outside the mainstream Christian society. We (Christians) know that Christ died without fighting back, and many feel that this is their example. Turn the other cheek, and respect and love fellow mankind regardless of their disposition.
I do not completely feel this way. I believe I have the right to self-defense. I will defend my life, hence I carry at all times. But this country is a great country, freedom! Freedom of religion, freedom of speech etc. If we let comments like "I would rather die than kill someone" bother us, then we ourselves are one tiny step closer of reducing their freedoms (in this case religious freedom) and if there freedom is lost, so is ours.
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
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I wonder if there are any parents with the belief that they would rather see one of their children killed than to take a life. I'd hope not, but you never know.
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DMan - The original quote had no religious context or qualifier, you chose to see it that way.
It might be acceptable to believe that a guy in Israel 2007 years ago did or didn't turn his cheek, that however will not get me out of any trouble that I find myself in.
"Excuse me BG, you can have my money and my life, I don't mind because I think I might get reincarnated and/or sent to heaven."
Nope, I'm here on earth and what happens to me is my responsibility.
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0.02 - I agree with you. Thats why I carry. I am just saying don't judge others for their beliefs. I say that with a qualified DON'T JUDGE ME FOR MINE, OR TAKE AWAY MY RIGHTS! The original quote did not make any overt religious statements or references, I understand that, but I personally know several people who believe they would not kill regardless. Their beliefs are ground in their deep spiritual beliefs.
We can not allow ourselves to become judgmental of others beliefs. We need to not only defend the 2nd Amendment, but ALL of them. Lose one, lose them all!
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
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That is both easy to understand but hard to accept.Originally Posted by DMan
I agree that deeply religious people are prone to outward displays of pacifism, but inside they are just like us.
They have to be, otherwise religions and all religious people would've been eradicated by agnostics and atheists. Religious people do stand up in defense and even offense, that's why there are crusades, jihads and other holy wars since the beginning of recorded history.
I think that if it really came to it they are as liable to defend with lethal force as you and I. They just purport themselves to be 'holier than thou' and thus radically pacifist.
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Pacifists have been one of the greatest forces in history (Christ, Ghandhi, MLK to name a few). Lets not automatically reject the position alone because it doesnt line up with our own and lets not assume that its "religious" in nature.
Self-defense / self-preservation alone is fundamentally a selfish position, we value ourselves more than the other guy. This is not wrong, but there are times when laying down ones own life for the greater good or others is the right thing to do.
There are things that are more important than staying alive at all costs. I.E. honor, duty, love, hope. These all transcend self-preservation and should be put before it when necessary, and I believe most of us here understand that balance.
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In my previous post I drew a parallel between the person quoted and a stoner. That was how I saw the whole thing prior to the 'turn the other cheek' analogy.
IMO it is valid to survive at the expense of an attacker who is acting outside of the law simply because my resultant life will naturally add more worth to society than his would've due to my moral fortitude and lack of criminal intent compared to his amoral, antisocial, self-centered anarchy.
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There is a fine line between us and the bad BG. We both are capable of evil, we both carry guns, we both are prepared to take anothers life or even break a law to preserve our own.
Lets be careful not to "purport ourselves to be holier than thou".
Last edited by HOLYROLLER; May 22nd, 2007 at 07:41 PM.
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