This is a discussion on Statement of the Century, Lets Discuss. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HOLYROLLER Lets be careful not to "purport ourselves to be holier than thou". AMEN...
Good debate - another reason I enjoy this forum so much - we can mention religion (in context) without descending into childish behavior.
No worries 0.02. I learn much from your posts and enjoy the exchange.
And again the people said AMEN!!
"Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.
I love THIS quote.
"Fight back! Whenever you are offered violence, fight back! The aggressor does not fear the law, so he must be taught to fear you. Whatever the risk, and at whatever the cost, fight back!"
- Col. Jeff Cooper, November 1993
I wonder how many people who express this 'I'd-rather-die-than-defend-myself' stuff actually would do it?? Not many, I bet. It is too much against human nature.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
When reading this discussion, the idea of "stopping power" comes to mind.
Not so much about which cartridge is better, but within the phrase itself... "stopping."... "stopping" a bad guy... stopping destructive behaviour... potentially PREVENTING the loss of life, whether it be your own or someone else's.
When confronted with an armed assailant, i would hope to adopt the mindset of "Unstopped, this guy WILL kill me, and WILL kill the next victim he chooses." From this viewpoint, it is my duty not only to defend myself, but to defend his future victims. More than one life can rest on your shoulders!
With that being said, if the perp could be stopped without destroying his life, then more the merrier... but why risk it by under-preparing yourself with ONLY a non-lethal device? If used incorrectly, unskillfully, or against a particularly determined armed intruder, the difference between pepperspray and buck/birdshot becomes more than obvious.
I was raised in a Christian home. We were taught never to start a fight but never to run away from one either, it sort of flew in the face of turning the other cheek. It was common knowledge what had to be done when confronted by a bully.
A stint in law enforcement reinforced what I was taught as a little boy. As an adult in today's world lethal force capability just seems prudent. That doesn't make me love my fellow man any less, it just provides a means of survival in a world filled with evils.
For his sake I hope he never meets the person who is willing to take his life. Because he will surely lose his life.
People like this have no idea what a precious gift from God their life really is. To not defend such a gift with every means that you possess is surely a sin.
Strongly recommend book by Charl Van Wyk titled "Shoosting Back: The Right and Duty of Self-Defense. Got my copy through WorldNetDaily.com. Author returned fire on terrorists attacking his church. He presents very compelling arguments for defense of self, family, and innocents based on the Bible. Dman, he explains that the reason Christ said not to fight back was in order that the Scriptures would be fulfilled.
My pastor, a Catholic priest, and an ex-LEO before the priesthood, and I have had some very interesting conversation about self-defense. His explanation is that we have the right to defend ourselves and family, but not necessarily the obligation. Don't know if that makes sense to any of you, but, it does to me. A little off topic, but I'm going to ask anyway. He (pastor) has been recently diagnosed with a very aggressive form of cancer, in his lungs, spine, and ribs. Doctor say the survival rate is 5% for the first year, and he is undergoing very aggressive chemo and radiation therapy. I would appreciate it if the believers among you would keep him in your prayers. The others that do not believe in prayer or some form of spiritual life, then I just ask you to keep him in your thoughts. He is truly one of the good guys.
If they meant it to mean that they won't harm or kill another just to do it, fine. If they said that and meant it in reference to self defense.....fine by me. I won't do it.
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
love and thanks of man and woman."
-- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)
That treats as valueless one's own life.I'd rather be killed than take another life any day, no matter how tortured they are. Perhaps not a popular view, but it's mine.
My own mother believes this. I believe she would not actually appreciate assistance, if it came to the death of someone. It goes without saying that she and I don't get very far on this topic. A life in exchange for hers may well end up gettin' me "killed," if you know what I mean.
Sounds noble, yes. Trouble is, it treats as valueless one's own life and the lives of those depending on you.It sounds noble. I think when someone says this they mean they value life.
A series of value judgments is about to follow. I believe that only one thing in this life is an actual mortal sin (or whatever you wish to call it): treating as valueless the gift of life, whether yours or another's. That simple precept is the core of the moral compass we all carry with us, as humans. I cannot help but think one who believes life isn't worth defending has a weak moral anchor.
IMO, it isn't a matter of me-or-him. It's simply that life matters; it's a gift; it's precious; it's to be valued and treated as such. If a rock is falling out of the sky towards your head, you step aside. If an animal attacks you, you stop it. If someone with an upraised hand is about to stab or shoot you ... you defend against it. To do anything else, in my view, spits on the gift of life.
I know a few people like this. I think some of the attitude stems from nothing bad ever happened to them so far, so it never will. Its easy to make a statement like that when you believe those things only happen to other people.
Some people dont need to have a gun because before they used it in self defense, it would be taken from them and they'd be shot by their own gun. I think some people re just cut out that way. I bet if their child was in danger, they would do anything within their power to kill the person.
Its like a "denial "thing. It will never happen to me, so I can say it.