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About LinkBacksNothing except my CHL in my wallet.
Jerry
This is a discussion on CHL Badges within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Nothing except my CHL in my wallet. Jerry...
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Nothing except my CHL in my wallet.
Jerry
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Not even a drivers license?!Originally Posted by JerryM
Obama didn't get elected to warranty your muffler. He's here to warranty your life.
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#1 Mr. An is dead because he was (mis)identified as the BG and did not comply with the LEOs.
#2 This type of visual ID most likely would not have been large enough to allow anyone in the heat of the moment to identify someone as a permit holder - Mr. An most likely would still be dead even if he had this.
#3 Our GFLs here in GA are nothing more than a piece of paper with a thumb/finger print - easily duplicated.
My worry is not so much about LEOs arriving on the scene - but rather other permit/license holders. I think we are pretty much in the same boat as off duty or plain clothes LEOs - you are going to be restrained in some fashion until indentification transpires and the situation is secure. Off duty LEOs usually do not walk around with their badges in the open.
I don't know what the answer is as far as quick indentification. I will not assume the first person I see with a gun is the BG - and I hope others will do the same. It could be a fellow ccw/permit/license holder you just drew down on - and in turn you are now the BG to him/her - or someone else.
I don't think there is any harm in your fold down permit/license holder - I just do not know how useful it would be at any given distance. Will I just think it is some employment badge?
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No, I do not shoot from my car. :)Not even a drivers license?!
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I will use my badge to properly identify myself as a sworn off duty firefighter to any LEO that shows up after a violent confrontation where my firearm was drawn in self defense, so right now that would not be for me. However, after I am retired, perhaps I would be inclined to use something like that in the future.
God bless our troops!
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I can see it now -- bad guys advertising phony "ARMED decals for only $100.00. Enhances armed robbery success by 100% by making the public think you are one of the good guys."
If you want to give up concealed carry and go to open carry, why don't you just come out and say it. On the other hand, if you have yearnings to be a cop or a soldier, go apply.
In the meanwhile, if there is any problem, I have my permit in my wallet.
I do not understand what people who promote or want to use these gimmicks or ccw badges think they are gaining?
From the eye of the responding LEO on a shooting incident or a "man with a gun" call... to see such an item being displayed at them does absolutely nothing to verify that the holder is in fact a good guy! Period! What it does do is attempt to distract the LEO from focusing on what is actually before him... a man holding a gun! Why on earth would any officer in their right mind automatically assume said person is a good guy and not a fraud?
Every expert, LEO or otherwise say to "Follow the commands of responding LEO's and Do Exactly As They Say and You Won't Get Shot!" and also, "If you can... Have Your Gun On The Ground or Back In the Holster when they arrive!"
For some people they will never accept that advice, or it just isn't good enough for them.
They seem to "must have" the ccw badge, or some "special ID holder" or some other gimmick!
Which leads one to question, What is the real motive for wanting a ccw badge?
Well, choose to use that gimmick at your own peril.
I choose to do what I know works! Do what the cops tell me to, and put my gun away before they show up!
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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Why not just make sure the gun is not in your hand when the LEO arrives? If the BG is alive, and not on the ground it is harder, but I would just back off, holster my gun, and raise my hands. As long as the BG is not dangerous, and I cannot imagine why he would be at that time, just let the officers take charge, and follow their instructions.
And maybe show my driver's license.:) They still let me have one, although I get tested every year now. And, Oh Yes, my CHL also, but no badge or other stuff.
Best,
Jerry
Bad idea.
Its use implies a few things that are absolutely wrong.
Wearing it and flipping it out, gives the user the false assumption that a responding cop sees it or even recognizes it.
Assuming anything in a shooting scenario or even with cops responding in force to what they hear on the radio that says "shots fired at so and so" has and will continue to get people killed.
Someone that thinks that they are safe because of this little gizmo and takes just a second longer to react to a command because they think "hey...I am a good guy and I got this little thingy here that says so, so I'm OK" can and will get shot by the time it took them to think that long.
And then...guess what...
you'll be dead and laying in your own blood with your little "I'm a legal concealed weapons holder" ID card flipped out laying right beside you.
A lot of good that will do.
It is better to live one day as a lion, than a thousand years as a lamb...
AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
Maker of cool things to shoot
I hate the CCW badges, and well, I hate this cheesy thing too.
"Just blame Sixto"
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M&P Doc- Just ask.
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I am not so sure that the LEO would fire before telling you to drop the gun. I wonder if there are any statistics?
But it seems much easier just to make sure the gun is either on the ground or in your holster with your arms raised.
In any case I am persuaded that CHL badges and anything else to try to identify yourself while armed when an officer gets on the scene is a bad idea.
Best,
Jerry
No stats needed, I'll tell you right now they would. The "Freeze Police" or "Drop the gun" is a thing of Hollywood. Sure it does happen, but in an active shoot, anything goes.
"Just blame Sixto"
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M&P Doc- Just ask.
I would say that in general, It has everything to do with the actions of the man with the gun and the perceived threat the officer feels at the time. Either a threat towards himself, or some other officer on the scene, or a third innocent party.
Now, it's my understanding LEO's are trained be reasonably restrained in dealing with a subject holding a gun in their hands. It's their job to deal with armed subjects and not just shoot everyone on sight!
HOWEVER... In general, officers are held close to the same standards of using deadly force as a civilian. There has to be an immediate threat of death or serious injury for them to justified in shooting someone.
An unknown person holding a gun is pretty damn close to meeting that definition!
If the officer is shouting commands to "drop the gun", or "don't move," or "get on the ground," and you don't immediately comply with... well guess what? You're probably going to get shot! And the officer will be justified in doing so!
You were an armed person, brandishing a gun, who failed to obey a lawful command! The LEO MUST assume you have some other nefarious intent by not following his lawful command. Maybe you were scheming on how to get the upper hand on him.
If you were told to drop the gun, and instead you decide to try and whip out your ccw credentials... well, you're probably going to get shot.
It will be of little consequence that you were in fact the complainant and good guy, but just chose instead to exercise your god given right to be stupid! He will still be justified in shooting said stupid person.
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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I do not believe that if one were holding a gun on the BG, and not waving it around, and dropped the gun when ordered to do so, there would be no shooting. I do personally know a lot of LEOs and not one is trigger happy. Just follow their orders. they are no-nonsense in such situations but would not shoot immediately if a person was holding a gun and not pointing at them if that person followed their orders.
But it is not an issue with me as I would not have a gun in my hand when they drove up.
Regards,
Jerry
Well, I'm with you Jerry in that I'm not going to have my gun in my hand when they show up... And I am going to follow every command to the letter and immediately.
Just remember, If you are holding your attacker at gunpoint when they arrive... You know you are the good guy, and you know who the bad guy is...
But the LEO's are not going to assume anything and probably not going to take anyones word on who's who when they first arrive and one party is still holding a gun.
Sometimes it's obvious, but often times, it clearly isn't.
That's why off duty or undercover LEO's continue to get shot by responding officers at shooting incidents. Mainly because instead of immediately obeying the responding duty officers commands, they instead try to ID them self as an off duty officer or undercover officer.
One thing you can never know is the state of mind, level of competency, amount of training, or years of experience the responding LEO has when he arrives on scene to such an incident. It's best to follow his commands to the letter. If he didn't shoot you on sight... all he is trying to do is make the scene safe, to his satisfaction. And one thing is certain... His adrenaline is going to be surging too!
Everything else can be sorted out later!
-Bark'n
Semper Fi
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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