Anybody carry Two J frames?

[OD*]

Two is one, one is none.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[OD*]

I have a S & W 642 and a 637 and generally carry just the 642 in a Mika pocket holster but I'm considering also carrying the 637 as backup. I would think that two pocket holsters might be a bit much; IWB, OWB, ankle? Thanks for any suggestions.

Sam,

You could look into the old Chic Gaylord NEW YORK RELOAD by BELL CHARTER OAK, I believe they are still available for revolvers.

http://bellcharteroakholsters.com/demon3.html

[Bark'n]

[QUOTE=JerryM;381117]

Jerry... you are most certainly entitled to your opinions... and I won't criticize you for having those opinions.
Just be careful when you say such things as there "will never be a scenario like..." and things like that, when there already have been numerous scenario's like that.

I just feel you are rather short sided in your thoughts of why no civilian needs a back up gun...


Most ccw holders carry one gun... hell most LEO's carry one gun and I have no problem if you only want one gun. Or No guns!

Hi Bark'n,

Can you provide even one well documentated case where such a scenario actually happened? I also read the Rifleman, and do not recall having seen an instance where one needed two guns unless it was inside a business being robbed. I would like to know when it has occurred.

Regarding the percentages, I feel sure that the overall liklihood of one getting attacked and needing to use deadly force is less than 1 in 100,0000. If one considers the number of people in the US, and the number who get attacked it is a very small percentage.

Again, carry what you will, but I remain unconvinced. There is a very low probability that I will ever need a gun, and less that I will need 2. I just consider the more than one paranoia. I also seriously doubt that one has a very good chance against two or more who are well armed, or close enough to use a knife. Sure, we do the best we can, but there is a limit.

I have never personally known but one person who was attacked anywhere, and needed a weapon, and that person used a stun gun. She attended one of our CCW classes.

Regards,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

The name is Mark Yuhr in Miami Florida and as a cab driver, he was robbed at gunpoint by one Orlando Borroso who as a hardened criminal in which had multiple cuban gang tattoo's found during his autopsy.

After robbing Mark, and forcing him out of his cab he proceeded to try and murder him by pulling the trigger on his stolen 9mm which unfortunately for Borroso, had the safety on. In a split second, Yuhr pulled his .45 Colt Commander and emptied the magazine into Borroso from a distance of approx. 2-3 feet. Hit hit Borroso 7 times and after pulling Borroso from his cab, Borroso attempted to get up again and go for his gun. Yuhr, unable to reload his semi-auto colt, then pulled his Taurus .38 spl. revolver. Borroso collapsed without Yuhr had to shoot again, but he, as well as police and subsequent investigators believe that it was essential that Yuhr had a BUG at the ready for follow-up shots if needed.


The name is Lance Thomas. Thomas, a Los Angeles watchmaker and jewelry store owner, over a period of less than 3 years, Thomas was involved in four gun battles against a total of 11 known suspects. He shot six of them, killing five. The watch dealer himself was wounded on two of these occasions, taking a total of five rounds. Thomas has been featured in television programs numerous time including the NBC news program "Turning Point".

You can read about Thomas' personal accounts in the book "The Deadliest Men: The World's Deadliest Combatants Through the Ages." by Paul Kirchner and published by Paladin Press.

Jerry, if you are too lazy to utilize Google, then I don't know what else to tell you except that maybe you don't quite know all that you think you know.

The statistics are out there, I gave you TWO example and places to find more. It has been estimated by researchers and economists with undisputed facts that approximately 2.1 million times a year that armed citizens utilize their lawfully owned weapons to thwart crime, without having to fire a shot. There are also countless documented cases in which armed citizens have had to shoot two or more assailants in an encounter. One watchmaker in California has been in

You, Jerry can call into question whatever you want, but unless you have the evidence to back up your claims, you are just another blowhard. I have a brother-in-law who unless he has seen something with his own eyes personally, it isn't true. There are a lot of people in life who has similar delusions.

To each their own.

[Bark'n]

Mas is smoking gun-writer crack, again. Unless you start with a gun in each hand, you cannot physically empty one, access, draw, acquire and fire the second nearly as fast as 10 out of a single auto. Not even Jerry Miculek. Unless it was a Ruger DAO auto.

Be realistic. I'm a firm believer in hi-cap. I also understand you can't/won't be able to carry 15 on board all the time. Bottom line, if you empty your first gun, and are reaching for the second, those are seconds when someone is probably closing on you (to interfere with your draw/reload and to kill you.)

If you carry two low-cap guns, recognize the limitations, and spend as much time on fitness (running, jumping and some weights) as you do shooting.

Just be aware that your primary gun can and often becomes disabled. More than one gun has been "SHOT" because of peoples natural tendancy and uncontrolled tunnel vision focuses directly on the threat, which is "The Gun"! Lots of guns have been literally shot out of peoples hands and may be thrown some distance away and also become mechanically inoperable. Still on the rare side, but more common than one would think.

[JerryM]

Hi Bark'n,

I don't intend to make this personal.
But the examples you gave were not normal CHL holders getting attacked on the street, but business owners who were being robbed. That is a great difference.

I'll leave it at that. I'm sorry you cannot discuss the issue without making it a personal attack because we disagree. Term like "blowhard" and "lazy" do not have a place in such discussions. In fact you know nothing about me, nor I you. I would hope we could discuss things on these forums without becoming emotional, and make personal attacks.

Let's leave it at that, and you still have not shown an example of a CHL holder needing two guns. Cab drivers and jewlery store owners are not anywhere the same. as citizens walking through a parking lot after or before shopping.

I do not intend to visit this thread again.

Regards,
Jerry

[Rob72]

Just be aware that your primary gun can and often becomes disabled. More than one gun has been "SHOT" because of peoples natural tendancy and uncontrolled tunnel vision focuses directly on the threat, which is "The Gun"! Lots of guns have been literally shot out of peoples hands and may be thrown some distance away and also become mechanically inoperable. Still on the rare side, but more common than one would think.

Oh, I agree. I have carried two, on occassion. My point was adressing the utility of the primary weapon. If your PRA is low, a J-Frame is a fine cc; if high, one should re-evaluate Glock, Sig, Beretta, etc., and stick the J in a pocket or ankle holster.

[Rob72]

Thanks for all the interesting comments. I've decided to carry the
2nd airweight IWB behind the right hip probably in a Don Hume holster to supplement the 642 in the front pocket. Just from walking around the house it seems a lot easier (probably due to weight distribution) to carry the two airweights rather that my S & W 686 with the 2.5" barrel and the ultra smooth trigger.

sam, to add to the confusion: why put both weapons on the strong-side? When I only owned a S&W 686, I did practice a behind-the-back draw with the weak hand. Not convenient, and could be severely limited by injury, environment, etc..

Just a suggestion, but I would try a butt-forward carry, about 9 o'clock. This allows a more reasonable weak-hand access and a very solid presenting grip with either hand (you reach across the body with your strong hand). Also, while soft grips may feel good, hardwood or hard nylon won't grab your clothing. Just another $.02.

[Rob72]

you still have not shown an example of a CHL holder needing two guns. Jerry

Not to kick Jerry while down, and whereas I do agree with him- a high-cap is far better than two 5-shot wheelies- and the genuine odds of actually needing two guns (and not simply reloads) are infintismal:

The Trolley Square Mall shooting. Officer Hammond was off-duty, and assigned to a relatively low risk detail on the job (functionally a CCW). I believe he stated somewhere that he would (at least) carry more reloads in the future. In all honesty, he needed another gun. That gun should have been higher capacity, and at least a 9mm (someone correct me, but I believe he used a .380 ...?). IOW, a "primary"........

[OPFOR]

I would also argue that the cabbie and the jewler are CCW holders. They aren't cops, they aren't soldiers, they are armed citizens. Period.

As for the original topic - I'm not a wheel gun guy myself, but it seems simple logic that two is better than one, and ten is better than five. Certainly, a line has to be drawn somewhere, but that is for the individual carrier to decide. If it is not unduly inconvenient - and you are committed to a revolver - then two functionally identical, dimensionally identical revolvers seems to be a good idea.

[David III]

Regarding the original question: yes, my wife carries two S&W 642s. She does so because, due to some real problems with her wrists and hands, she cannot fire a semi-automatic without it jamming. Even Glocks. She's the only person I have ever seen who can reliably jam a Glock -- she can't get enough grip pressure to allow it to cycle.
So, she uses revolvers. Her favorite is a 4" Colt Lawman with 38 Special ammo, but too much weight for her to pack around.
She's opted to carry the two 642s, giving her light weight and a possibility of grabbing the second gun in the rare instance where she'd need more rounds. I won't speculate on how rare that is, I personally hope we never find out.
For me, I carry a Colt Defender and a Kel-Tec P32, though I have no idea why I carry the P32, except that it's just been in my pocket so long I'm used to it. No logic here. With my wife, it's her carefully thought out logic to have two identical guns, nothing different to remember, both work the same. She's happy - good enough for me.

[samtechlan]

sam, to add to the confusion: why put both weapons on the strong-side? When I only owned a S&W 686, I did practice a behind-the-back draw with the weak hand. Not convenient, and could be severely limited by injury, environment, etc..

Just a suggestion, but I would try a butt-forward carry, about 9 o'clock. This allows a more reasonable weak-hand access and a very solid presenting grip with either hand (you reach across the body with your strong hand). Also, while soft grips may feel good, hardwood or hard nylon won't grab your clothing. Just another $.02.

Thanks for the suggestion. Actually the holster that I'm looking to get (Don Hume IWB) can be worn crossdraw style as well so I will try it and see how it feels.

[samtechlan]

Regarding the original question: yes, my wife carries two S&W 642s. She does so because, due to some real problems with her wrists and hands, she cannot fire a semi-automatic without it jamming. Even Glocks. She's the only person I have ever seen who can reliably jam a Glock -- she can't get enough grip pressure to allow it to cycle.
So, she uses revolvers. Her favorite is a 4" Colt Lawman with 38 Special ammo, but too much weight for her to pack around.
She's opted to carry the two 642s, giving her light weight and a possibility of grabbing the second gun in the rare instance where she'd need more rounds. I won't speculate on how rare that is, I personally hope we never find out.
For me, I carry a Colt Defender and a Kel-Tec P32, though I have no idea why I carry the P32, except that it's just been in my pocket so long I'm used to it. No logic here. With my wife, it's her carefully thought out logic to have two identical guns, nothing different to remember, both work the same. She's happy - good enough for me.

How does she carry the 2 J frames?

[Bark'n]

Jerry,

Most definitely I offer a humble appology if I made things personal with my remarks...

Still, I don't see how Mark Yuhr in any sense be considered a business owner any more than a pizza delivery person can be considered a business owner.

They are just everyday citizens who are ccw holders who face crime. Whether they are at work doing their jobs, or just walking to their cars in a dark parking lot and being robbed, there are no difference in the dynamics of their attacks.

While Lance Thomas was a business owner, again, he is just a citizen. Business owners all across the nation are mere citizens or civillians as you will. None of those were armed, uniformed security personnel or law enforcement or military, who wear a uniform and in that sense make them a defacto target for an armed aggressor. Hence the words citizens and civillians apply to anyone not in the public safety or military sectors.

They were citizens being robbed at gunpoint. Really no different if you were at an ATM getting $60 cash and 3 thugs approach you with one of them holding a gun. It's that simple.

I am simply saying there are lots of examples out there to rebutt your statements that no one needs two guns, and no one can be caught in a long drawn out gun battle, and that if you ran out of ammo, you would certainly be killed before you could reload.

Examples about that abound, I know it, thousands of members of this forum know it, and I am not going to take the time to re-do all the research to prove what I already know as fact.

[David III]

How does she carry the 2 J frames?

One in her back pocket and one in either her front pocket (my strong recommendation) or the front pocket one goes into her purse (despite my comments to the contrary -- I believe in "on body" carry but she's taller than I am and I don't want to get hit in the head...).

She uses a Milt Sparks pocket holster for her front pocket and no holster at all in her back pocket. Since she wears jeans and untucked T-shirts, the back pocket one stays covered up.

[jwhite75]

For those who think you do not need a second gun, I guess you do not need a spare tire on your car, cause you will never get a flat, or light bulbs around the house because you will never blow one and be left in the dark. I wish I lived in the world of marshmallows and gummi bears too.