May 29th, 2007 07:35 AM
"There are a lot of folks who have mental disabilities that never show up on the radar screen. How do you know for sure?"--you don't, but that doesn't mean you (chief of police) get to infringe on my freedom.
At least the BG didn't use flashbangs...
May 29th, 2007 10:22 AM
Warning.. Lima Theory Time
This is all just Lima Theory but it's my theory so here it goes....
Originally Posted by northjdr
Because he snapped does that automatically make him mentally ill? You'd probably be surprised to find out sane he really was would he have lived.
Think about it. Have you ever snapped and yelled at someone you didn't mean to yell at or had a bad day and acted out in anger? You didn't shoot anyone but if you are really honest with yourself you could see how anger can make you do crazy stuff. No, you will probably never hurt anyone because you've learned better control, but humans are just that.. human, and we are not above doing some horrible things for stupid reasons.
They have whole trials about this stuff where one lawyer tries to prove their client was mentally ill and therefor can't be held liable for the crime they committed and where other lawyers try to prove the defendant was in complete control of themselves and their actions (which is usually the case).
This guy probably did what he did and thought, "MY GOD. What did I just do? I will never be able to live with this," and shot himself. He let rage get the better part of himself and he did a horrible thing and that was that. I think if he were to survive the lawyers would have fun proving just how sane he really was when he pulled that trigger. Only because he's dead are they pointing the finger at mental issues.
I guess my point is that dismissing all of this stuff off as mental illness could come back and bite us in the butt. They may want to do more rigorous mental screenings and then who gets to decide who's mentally ill and who's not? They may even find this forum and say, "SEE.. even the guys who carry think this guy is insane. Heck, there are probably five insane people who frequent those forums and they don't even know it. Let's test them all and see."
But that's all Lima theory. I don't want to run to mentally ill when it's just the natural evil that most of us learn to control a lot better than this guy did.
May 29th, 2007 10:42 AM
Every class and sub-group of people have a contingent of crazies.
Crazy cannot be legislated away and as noted in the article is difficult to detect/predict even if you try.
"...Mobley opened fire after Bozeman called him 'crazy'." - Investigators of the incident
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
May 29th, 2007 11:01 AM
I'm in SC and waiting on my permit. 30 days to go. I hope there is no impact.
Sad to see.
"I would like to die in my sleep like my grandfather did - and not like his screaming passengers!" - unknown
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May 29th, 2007 11:13 AM
You would be surprised at the number of CCW members who carry every day and WILL NOT GET INVOLVED for various reasons.
Of course, all shooting situations are FACT DRIVEN, and differ one from the other but I recently had experience where CCW members ( another site ) openly complained about "bad press", fear of law suits, fear of arrest etc. IF they actually employed their carry gun to make safe a dangerous situation. WHY CARRY?
Personally, I hate lugging around a hunk of iron all day BUT the "what if" factor is gaining all the time and in Atlanta, you had better be strapped.
Daily, we have home invasions, holdups inside the MALLS, doctor's office's robbed at gunpoint etc. NO PLACE is a SAFE PLACE any longer.
The FIRST RULE OF GUNFIGHTING IS : GET YOUR MIND RIGHT.
What would you do in a clear and dangerous situation? You would be amazed at the number of CCW holders who would do nothing.
May 29th, 2007 03:46 PM
Limatunes shared a lot of wisdom in her post. I too do not believe you can dismiss everything as actions of a mental deficient. I've seen countless people over the years as a LEO, act totally "out of character" over similar insignificant issues, such as "parking spaces", people breaking line in front of others, preceived injustices for lack of common courtesy, etc.
Psychology is not an exact science and sometimes people just snap for no apparent logical reason. How else could you explain why a member of a family would kill their "Loved Ones" with no predisposition to act in that manner, it happens every day. Sometimes people are on their "last leg" on the stress meter, and someone unknowingly pushes their button. As Limatunes said, its sad but it is human.
As far as the LEO's comments, they were irresponsible and uncalled for. Most of the CCW's I know are very responsible and I am personally glad to have them out there, I feel confident that most would come to my aid if needed "on-duty" and welcome them. In any society we have to count on one another to make sound decisions, but sometime we don't, we're human.
A Wise Man Changes His Mind, but a Fool Never Does
May 29th, 2007 04:04 PM
Tightening the gun laws will only do one thing..... set the stage for the next tightening.
Liberals have always applied the incremental approach, just look at your tax bill, it didn't get that high in one swoop. They have done the same with gun laws throughout the years hence....how many gun laws are out there? Thousands, each one is just prep for the next. Just say NO.
May 29th, 2007 04:36 PM
Okay. The fact will always be that we can't know and map what's inside people's heads.
It is the mental evaluation portion of the process that worries two of the area's top law enforcement officers most.
"The hardest part of concealed weapons permits or gun laws is the mental evaluation," said Beaufort County Sheriff P.J. Tanner. "I just conceivably can't figure out how we are honestly doing that in a proper way.
"There are a lot of folks who have mental disabilities that never show up on the radar screen. How do you know for sure?"
Some will argue that because we can't, we should not allow anyone to carry weapons. Well, I've read of plenty of cases in which law enforcement officers themselves went on rampages (there was a case a few years ago in NJ that comes to mind). Are we going to apply the same standard there? We can't read would-be cops' minds either, so we can't let them carry guns?
Look at aviation. Not long ago, a student pilot deliberately crashed a Cessna into his estranged wife's mother's house, with his daughter on board. She was the subject of a custody struggle, and he made a phone call prior to the flight saying that he would not let the ex-wife take the daughter. So he used the airplane as a murder-suicide weapon.
So no one knew he was going to snap, either. No one could have. Should no one be allowed to have a pilot's license?
Let's face it, there is no way to read minds and assure 100% proof against "snapping" or any other kind of violent upheaval of the psyche. That's just part of the risk of living. But we can't deny rights to all just because we recognize some might be dangerous with them.
May 29th, 2007 04:46 PM
Where did they get this cop who made all the inane comments?!
He says that guns do no good. Oh, sorry, the DO do good, but ONLY if they belong to a police officer.
He says he can't think of a SINGLE defensive gun use by a permit holder. First of all, that's just gotta be crap. All the DGUs that Gary Kleck studied, and they must ALL have occurred outside of NC?? Puhlease.
He says he feels that the mental screening is inadequate. What's his solution? Either come up with a mind-reading machine, or dismantle the carry permit system? He even admits that people carried illegally without the permit system, before it was in place. So... what's bad about the system. It's MORE of a safeguard than there was before, even if it's not perfect.
That cop sounds like a moron. And an elitist, with his "only the cops should be armed." Well, I wonder if his wife has a permit. If she's not a cop, they should tell him, hey, we don't know that she won't ever snap and go on a murderous rampage, so she'll have to be defenseless when she goes out Christmas shopping and is walking through parking lots at the mall when the thieves and everyone are out. See how he likes it. And when he retires, and is not fulfilling the duties of a police officer, he should have no gun then, himself. We just never know what he might do, when he might snap, you know?
May 29th, 2007 09:05 PM
+1 Sigguy229. Too many laws around here it seems like. The media goes nuts over everything, but the population is around 300 million so there's going to be something nuts going on every day. I'm concerned for our freedom.
May 29th, 2007 09:11 PM
Even tho I hate to here of 1 CCW holder do something this tragic. If you do a quick liberal numbers game 1 in 53,738 ???
LIFES JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE "GRAVE" SAFELY ,IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY.BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY S@#$...WHAT
May 30th, 2007 10:21 AM
It just takes one nut to change things!! Look at VT!! Steve48
May 30th, 2007 05:32 PM
That's not how the liberal numbers game works, though.
Originally Posted by bullseye
The number of murders committed by career criminals, using illegally acquired firearms, is wholly irrelevant.
However, ANY murder committed by an otherwise ordinary-seeming citizen with a legally acquired firearm, is an outrage that cannot be tolerated.
See the difference?
May 31st, 2007 01:10 AM
Tanner thinks the intent of conceal carry is to allow citizens to exercise their constitutional right to bear arms.
However, he couldn't recall a single incident when a permit carrying resident used a handgun in self-defense.
I'm curious to know if the the crime rate has improved since the introduction of CCW in South Carolina. Apparently, not a single self defense shooting has occurred by a permit holder in the 11 years since legislation was passed.
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May 31st, 2007 04:21 AM
Or an overzealous "journalist" who overlooks the apparent facts for a juicy story.
Originally Posted by HotGuns;
Why is it that those who scream about their 1st Amendment rights are so willing to abolish the 2nd?
Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch
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