Condition orange and unarmed tonight

This is a discussion on Condition orange and unarmed tonight within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I work at Costco Wholesale, and today I was out in the parking lot on cart duty (pushing carts), and around 9:15PM, the parking lot ...

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Thread: Condition orange and unarmed tonight

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Condition orange and unarmed tonight

    I work at Costco Wholesale, and today I was out in the parking lot on cart duty (pushing carts), and around 9:15PM, the parking lot was pretty much empty except for the cars belonging to employees. There was one other guy helping me get the carts in, and we were actually in the process of picking up garbage. A homeless native man approaches us, and asks us if we have a lighter he could use, we both told him no. I noticed he had an aluminum bat between him and his backpack on his back. My guess is, had my co-worker not been out there with me, or I not out there with him, either of us could've been robbed and/or assaulted. I had also noticed him approaching from the distance, he was about 50 yards away when I noticed him. I felt very uneasy about being unarmed, but its company policy, so I have to keep my gun in the vehicle. I'm glad I was alert though, the brain is the most important thing to have in order to survive these days.

    Also having at least one other person with you can be a good thing as well.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

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  3. #2
    Member Array ruffryder1167's Avatar
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    wow i cant believe how untrusting some companies are of the very employees they hire to deal with customers and their money.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."--Sigmund Freud

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    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Yup, they trust 18 year olds, fresh out of high school wiht 100s of dollars, but they don't trust CCW holders that took the time to go through the training, to carry their sidearm, even while on the job. Costco is a family environment so, I suppose they want the members to "feel" safe. I haven't seen any signs in or around the building that specifically prohibits the carrying of firearms, but I know for sure employees are forbidden from doing so. I failed to mention I carry a small Gerber knife on me at all times, so I wasn't completely unarmed.
    Last edited by SubNine; May 30th, 2007 at 05:38 AM.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spyderdude View Post
    I noticed he had an aluminum bat between him and his backpack on his back. My guess is, had my co-worker not been out there with me, or I not out there with him, either of us could've been robbed and/or assaulted.
    I don't know if it's fair to just assume that the presence of his bat meant that if he'd had the opportunity he would have robbed/beaten you with it. What about applying the same principle to him that WE want applied to US: that he may be carrying the bat defensively so that he has a fighting chance against whoever might mess with him?

    Would it suit you if anyone could somehow know that you're carrying a concealed handgun, and then regard you as the guy who would surely have shot and killed them but for the fact that you were both in a very public place with lots of witnesses around? Of course you wouldn't like that; we don't like what the anti-gunners imply about our motives, and how they think we're just dangerous violent people.

    Now, I wasn't there, and didn't observe the guy's demeanor, body language, etc. Maybe you're right and he was indeed a threat that just didn't have a good chance to materialize. But maybe he was just another person who wanted to be able to defend himself if the need arose.

    edit: I forgot to ask about why you continue to work at a place that won't allow you to carry a defensive weapon for your own safety. I know that many of us work at such places. Some decide, based on the notion that no one would ever know unless the gun had to be used to save a life, to carry despite the rules.

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    Buy a large can of OC spray and carry that. Better that than nothing and you won't be violating their Co. policy.
    I ditto the fact that this homeless guy was probably packing his own self defense by way of baseball bat. Life is tough on the streets.
    I saw that a lot when I worked in an area considered to be the worst human sewer in PGH. By the same token many homeless have alcohol related problems or mental issues (at least around here they do) and so they can be at times modestly unpredictable.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Member Array Dimensio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Buy a large can of OC spray and carry that. Better that than nothing and you won't be violating their Co. policy.
    Don't be so certain. Many years ago I worked at a grocery store. A co-worker was robbed during third shift. She asked if she could carry mace or pepper spray while working and was told no.

    I didn't bother asking when I was sexually assaulted (no physical contact was made, but it was a deeply disturbing event). I just started carrying.

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    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I don't know if it's fair to just assume that the presence of his bat meant that if he'd had the opportunity he would have robbed/beaten you with it. What about applying the same principle to him that WE want applied to US: that he may be carrying the bat defensively so that he has a fighting chance against whoever might mess with him?

    Would it suit you if anyone could somehow know that you're carrying a concealed handgun, and then regard you as the guy who would surely have shot and killed them but for the fact that you were both in a very public place with lots of witnesses around? Of course you wouldn't like that; we don't like what the anti-gunners imply about our motives, and how they think we're just dangerous violent people.

    Now, I wasn't there, and didn't observe the guy's demeanor, body language, etc. Maybe you're right and he was indeed a threat that just didn't have a good chance to materialize. But maybe he was just another person who wanted to be able to defend himself if the need arose.

    edit: I forgot to ask about why you continue to work at a place that won't allow you to carry a defensive weapon for your own safety. I know that many of us work at such places. Some decide, based on the notion that no one would ever know unless the gun had to be used to save a life, to carry despite the rules.
    +1 If I were homeless I would want something with which to defend myself, too.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

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    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Yes, I was thinking that maybe he carried the bat as a means of self defense, which I can understand, because life on the streets can be tough. I just started working at Costco Wholesale at the beginning of May. The main reason why I started working there is because the previous job I had simply didn't pay enough, and they also provide great benefits after the 90 day probationary period.

    I just feel uneasy about being approached by homeless people, especially in an empty parking lot where there is hardly anyone else around. I wouldn't feel as nervous had I been approached during normal business hours, because there would be lots of other people around.
    Last edited by SubNine; May 30th, 2007 at 09:38 AM.
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

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    I had a good buddy stationed at Fort Richardson. He said it was the only post he'd ever seen where taking out the trash was a two person job. He said that they always used those HUGE green dipsey-dumpsters for the garbage. The kind that open in the side with a sliding door. Said one day somebody opened that sliding door and a GRIZZLEY took his face off. So it was: Honey, I'm taking out the garbage. You cover me with the 375 H&H Magnum from the porch! You should be armed against dangerous wildlife in Alaska. Bears show up in the durndest places sometimes. If they won't let you carry a gun, why not a stun device or OC? Those both work on critters and the stun has the advantage of being pretty loud. I triggered mine in front of my two 140 pound Newfoundland dogs and they took off to the other side of the house at just the sound! Gave me a really dirty look, too.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    It is an accident just waiting to happen!!! Steve48

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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    I don't know if it's fair to just assume that the presence of his bat meant that if he'd had the opportunity he would have robbed/beaten you with it. What about applying the same principle to him that WE want applied to US: that he may be carrying the bat defensively so that he has a fighting chance against whoever might mess with him?

    Would it suit you if anyone could somehow know that you're carrying a concealed handgun, and then regard you as the guy who would surely have shot and killed them but for the fact that you were both in a very public place with lots of witnesses around? Of course you wouldn't like that; we don't like what the anti-gunners imply about our motives, and how they think we're just dangerous violent people.

    Now, I wasn't there, and didn't observe the guy's demeanor, body language, etc. Maybe you're right and he was indeed a threat that just didn't have a good chance to materialize. But maybe he was just another person who wanted to be able to defend himself if the need arose.

    edit: I forgot to ask about why you continue to work at a place that won't allow you to carry a defensive weapon for your own safety. I know that many of us work at such places. Some decide, based on the notion that no one would ever know unless the gun had to be used to save a life, to carry despite the rules.
    +1

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    Looks like it came out OK for you.

    I don't blame the homeless guy for carrying the bat, a lot are targeted for beatings and murder because "nobody will miss them." We had one here in Nashville recently that was beaten and dumped into the river.

    As others have suggested, carry some OC, or a boxcutter or blade if you can.
    "Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    http://www.gerbergear.com/product.php?model=1548
    Gerber came out with these, not long ago. $10 at WallyWorld. Well made, easily mod'ed for thumb opening, secure in the hand. Best of all, it looks like a money-clip, or key-ring.

    As far as the homeless go, it may sound cold, but if I see them approaching me, I look directly at them, point directly at them, and say, "I ain't got whatever you want." "Escalation"? Maybe. I've used escalation/de-escalation professionally, and to me it works as a good "tell"- if they keep coming, they were up to no good in the first place. A real homeless person can't afford too much of a tussel. As stated, nobody looks too closely at assaults involving them.

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    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    edit: I forgot to ask about why you continue to work at a place that won't allow you to carry a defensive weapon for your own safety. I know that many of us work at such places. Some decide, based on the notion that no one would ever know unless the gun had to be used to save a life, to carry despite the rules.
    So, jeffrey, do you carry in your workplace?

    In spite of our desire to defend ourselves, sometimes putting bread on the table is a need just as basic, hence secure employment may mean an undesirable compromise. It's not always black-and-white.
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

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    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    I remember cart pushing days in high school. I never worried too much about the homeless guys. They were usually harmless and the ones that did have some form of weapon had them to defend themselves or their few possessions.

    The ones I always had to watch out for were the thugs and the nutcase drivers. I even got a knife held up at me once because I warned a fellow employee about a guy waiting in the parking lot to stab him.

    Glad your safe. Staying alert aware is always your first and best defense.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

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