What If?

What If?

This is a discussion on What If? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This a fairly long preface but there is a point, I think. I stopped for gas at a locally owned quicky mart the other day. ...

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Thread: What If?

  1. #1
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    What If?

    This a fairly long preface but there is a point, I think.

    I stopped for gas at a locally owned quicky mart the other day. Out of 4 gas pumps, 1 was out of order, 2 were occupied by cars and the 4th had 2 motorcycles sitting at it. I got in line with one of the cars. Of course the other car was the first to pull out and one of the bikes immediately took it's place. I waited for what seemed like 10 minutes but was probably closer to 2 or 3 min. until the other car left. All this time the "bikers", (obviously RUBs) who were decked out in denim cut-offs sporting what may have been colors, were talking and discussing how much this chrome cost and how much those boots were or such stuff. Neither had pumped any fuel yet. I started fueling my car and so did one of the riders. The other promptly produced a zippo and ciggarette and lit-up right at the pump!
    I said "Man , you don't need to be smoking here!" To which he replied "Sorry" and took a step back. One step. He actually stepped closer to his buddy who was pumping gas! I choked back a reference to his IQ and Breeding, finished pumping and went in to pay, all the while biting my tongue and throwing angry looks at the guy. When I came out they were both still sitting at the pumps talking. There were two cars waiting. I don't know if the smoker had pumped his gas yet. I asked them if they were going to make everyone wait all day or what? They both gave me dirty looks but pulled off and went inside. I drove off fuming at their inconsiderate and potentially dangerous behavior when it struck me.
    What if I my assesment of these guys had been off?
    What if they had actually been the BGs they were trying to look like?
    Would my comments have been construed as incitement or escalation had it come to violence?
    I was carrying, which is why I held my tongue when I did.
    Any thoughts?
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    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    You did right. If we are all afraid to confront rude, inconsiderate, and dangerous people, they will continue to foul society.

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    It is up to you. I understand calling them on a safety issue, but probably would not bother with the holding up traffic stuff. If you feel the need to speak your mind , it can potentially cause more problems for you.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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    Yeah, I think you did the right thing...I confronted a woman at a pump for lighting up while her husband was pumping the gas, she was standing next to him...asked if she thought it was appropriate to smoke where she was standing, and she just shrugged her shoulders, her husband didn't say a word, just stood there....at that point, another guy pumping gas came up and said something as well, thats when she rolled her eyes and walked over behind her truck and stood there to smoke. I tell ya, some people amaze me, just how stupid they can be sometimes.
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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmy40 View Post
    All this time the "bikers", (obviously RUBs) who were decked out in denim cut-offs sporting what may have been colors, were talking and discussing how much this chrome cost and how much those boots were or such stuff.
    Well that describes most of the motorcycle riding cops in NJ. You commented on a safety issue so that's fine.

    As far as "what if" questions- it is what it is. It's over so replay this over in your head and decide what you did right/wrong and how you would approach a similar situation next time.

    Good job on showing restraint with your comments. Theres no need for unnecessary escalation with words.
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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Unfortunately it's not just that so called "common sense" these kinds of folks lack...Gasoline by itself in liquid form isn't the dangerous part. It's the gas...the fumes that is. They go boom real quick.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    Some where i saw security camera footage where a guy was standing in the bed of his pickup filling up five gallon gas cans. Static electricity caused by the bed liner light it off. He was lucky to escape with minor burns.

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    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Common sense would indicate that someone smoking right next to a source of highly flammable fumes presents a clear potential for death or serious bodily harm to anyone in the near vicinity.

    If a person engaged in that behavior is warned about it and willfully disregards the dangerous situation he or she is placing others on, do we not now have means, intent, and opportunity?

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Intent Lacking

    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Common sense would indicate that someone smoking right next to a source of highly flammable fumes presents a clear potential for death or serious bodily harm to anyone in the near vicinity.

    If a person engaged in that behavior is warned about it and willfully disregards the dangerous situation he or she is placing others on, do we not now have means, intent, and opportunity?
    Ummmm NO. There is a lack of both general and specific intent. Extreme negligence? Certainly. But if somebody dies because the gas explodes the worst that would happen is probably involuntary manslaughter. The counter argument is: If you saw them smoking near the gas why hang around? By hanging around you voluntarily assume the risk associated with the negigent behavior. If you didn't see them smoking and were injured due to their negligence well it's a tragic accident but you can't press criminal charges. No such thing as FELONY STUPID, unfortunately. You maybe could sue....but that's a different standard of proof.
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    I am interested in everyones opinions on all aspects of this situation but I am particularly curious about the "Who started it" aspect.
    Did my comments constitute aggression?
    I think I would handle it exactly the same way if I had it to do over. This not based on my confidence in my "rough and tumble" abilities but in my ability to asses the attitude and probable reaction of the others involved.
    I am looking for insight to the legal ramifications of my actions, not my moral or civic convictions.
    Thanks
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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Maybe a more palatible approach would have been, "Hey, man I need to fill up, I've gotta pick up my kid from_____ in ____minutes....". Generally, most bikers will go along with the family thing, unless they're looking for trouble. In which case, you call PD, or draw, depending on how serious it looks.

    As far as the "gas issue", stand on the opposite side of your car. The whole pump island wouldn't go up, just the 'tards nearest to it. Let them learn a life lesson. If you want to be safety conscious, learn where the emergency shut-off button is.

  12. #12
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    Unless my tank was empty...I'd back off and simply go to another station. I do not wish to confront a group of 'looking bad' bikers (I'm perfectly capable of holding my own if I have to...), nor do I wish, more importantly, to enter the 'Heavenly Gates' smelling like gasoline...

    OMO, of course...

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Many stations have an "Emergency Shutoff" button usually well placed (not sure if it's state law or what). I almost wonder if it would be worth it to just hit the emergency pump shutoff (kinda hard to miss those BIG RED buttons) and when everyone complains...say "look at the donkey over there trying to blow us all up".
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    You did right. If we are all afraid to confront rude, inconsiderate, and dangerous people, they will continue to foul society.
    These guys were not just rude, they were dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Ummmm NO. There is a lack of both general and specific intent. Extreme negligence? Certainly. But if somebody dies because the gas explodes the worst that would happen is probably involuntary manslaughter. The counter argument is: If you saw them smoking near the gas why hang around? By hanging around you voluntarily assume the risk associated with the negligent behavior. If you didn't see them smoking and were injured due to their negligence well it's a tragic accident but you can't press criminal charges. No such thing as FELONY STUPID, unfortunately. You maybe could sue....but that's a different standard of proof.
    A civil lawsuit requires a "preponderance of evidence" rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is the main reason OJ won his criminal trial and LOST his civil trial.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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