How do I legally Purchase for someone else?

How do I legally Purchase for someone else?

This is a discussion on How do I legally Purchase for someone else? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I want to purchase as a gift a handgun (possibly an XD .40 4inch) for my brother as a gift. I do not want to ...

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Thread: How do I legally Purchase for someone else?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    How do I legally Purchase for someone else?

    I want to purchase as a gift a handgun (possibly an XD .40 4inch) for my brother as a gift. I do not want to subvert the law in any way shape or means. Straw purchases are something that we must be very wary of. I can not legally answer the question if I am buying this for myself, because I am not, its for my brother. Yes he is legally able to own a weapon - that isn't the issue. If we go into the store and he fills out the paper work for the background check and I make payment - there is the appearance of a straw purchase, and I know of a few places that will only make the transaction with the individual that filled out the paperwork.

    Any suggestions?
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Simple (and Totally Legal ) solution.

    If the store offers them - Buy a Gift Certificate.

    If not - Print your own - many sites offer free documents.
    (here's one )
    http://www.giftango.com/gift-certificate-templates.asp

    Have the store manager sign it - pay cash and get a receipt.

    If it's to be a SURPRISE - Take your Bro to the store to help you
    decide on what new "fishing lures" to get ( insert any sports stuff )

    -------
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    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Do the gift certificate thing for him, or just bring him to the store .......looking around...........and when he finds his "gift" ask him to do the paperwork,, and you'll make the funds available.........otherwise, you'll need to do a transfer which will cost more $...........Easiest thing is to just bring him shopping........no other legal way to do it...........cuz it would be considered a "Straw Purchase" if you bought it, then handed it over to him............BIG No No
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

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    Member Array Ranger's Avatar
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    First things first, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

    Ok then. Since it's legal to give a gun as a gift, it's legal to buy a gun as a gift. A straw purchase is to buy a gun on someone else's behalf, which you are not doing. You are buying a gun on your behalf, for the perfectly legal purpose of giving a gift to your brother.

    Would I tell the dealer that? No. Would I answer yes to the "Are you buying this for yourself" question? Absolutely! You are buying it for yourself; to give as a birthday gift, or whatever. You're not buying it on his behalf. Until the gift is given, it is yours. You're not a proxy or an intermediary.

    Now all I've said is contingent on you not living in a commie state that requires unconstitutional gun registration. If you live in one of those states, I'd go with the gift certificate idea, just so some overzealous fool doesn't infer complicity between your brother and you.

    While none us us wants to, or needs to be a "test case," as a group, we have to stop letting these anti-2a's make us always fear that we're doing something wrong when exercising our rights.
    Last edited by Ranger; June 2nd, 2007 at 10:03 AM. Reason: Additional thought

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    Ok then. Since it's legal to give a gun as a gift, it's legal to buy a gun as a gift. A straw purchase is to buy a gun on someone else's behalf, which you are not doing. You are buying a gun on your behalf, for the perfectly legal purpose of giving a gift to your brother.

    Would I tell the dealer that? No. Would I answer yes to the "Are you buying this for yourself" question? Absolutely! You are buying it for yourself; to give as a birthday gift, or whatever. You're not buying it on his behalf. Until the gift is given, it is yours. You're not a proxy or an intermediary.
    Right on. Those who claim this is a straw purchase are very wrong.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
    First things first, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

    Ok then. Since it's legal to give a gun as a gift, it's legal to buy a gun as a gift. A straw purchase is to buy a gun on someone else's behalf, which you are not doing. You are buying a gun on your behalf, for the perfectly legal purpose of giving a gift to your brother.

    Would I tell the dealer that? No. Would I answer yes to the "Are you buying this for yourself" question? Absolutely! You are buying it for yourself; to give as a birthday gift, or whatever. You're not buying it on his behalf. Until the gift is given, it is yours. You're not a proxy or an intermediary.

    Now all I've said is contingent on you not living in a commie state that requires unconstitutional gun registration. If you live in one of those states, I'd go with the gift certificate idea, just so some overzealous fool doesn't infer complicity between your brother and you.

    While none us us wants to, or needs to be a "test case," as a group, we have to stop letting these anti-2a's make us always fear that we're doing something wrong when exercising our rights.
    x3.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.
    -Horace

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Right on. Those who claim this is a straw purchase are very wrong.
    100% correct. You can give a gun to someone as a gift - there is a block you must check when you fill out the forms if you plan to do it - and it's perfectly legal. What you can't do is buy a gun for someone else then have them pay you back for the purchase, ESPECIALLY if the intent was to get the weapon because the other individual wouldn't or couldn't buy a gun themselves. Examples... the person you are buying the weapon for is underage, a convicted felon, the gun is to be used for illegal purposes - robbery or murder - by the other individual and you are getting it to help "cover their tracks", etc.

    Of course, you could simply buy the gun for yourself, period. IF (I emphasize IF) your brother tells you he likes your gun and would like one for himself, you could THEN decide to give it to him as a gift. Of course, I'm not telling you to do anything that you feel might not be exactly legal, but I have given guns as gifts to relatives (my brother, son, wife) if they took a particular liking to one I own. FWIW, they all have purchased and own other guns and could purchase another one if they so desired.
    Last edited by rachilders; June 2nd, 2007 at 12:26 PM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    I'd like those who think that this is a straw purchase to define for the rest of us how long must we keep a firearm as our possession before giving it away is no longer considered a straw purchase in their minds.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array jeep45238's Avatar
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    In Ohio (at least this is how I got my 12 gauge), the person it is being given to fills out the paperwork. This clears them, and makes sure that they are fit to own, so to speak. Then the other person pays.

    Alternatively, we can buy it, then give it to the person. No paperwork involved in that 'transaction'. It's a gift. Or you can 'sell' it, still no paperwork involved for that transaction. If you want to sell the gun for $.01, go for it. But then again, not too many folks worry about a penny, so your brother may as well keep the penny, right?

    How the laws work out in New Hampshire though, I've no clue.
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  10. #10
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    You're making a mountain out of a mole hill here. If you're concerned about the appearance of a strawman purchase in the gunstore, simply give the money to your brother so he can buy the gun himself.

    In this scenario, your brother physically hands over the money to the store clerk, fills out the forms in his name, passes the NICS check, and voila! done deal.


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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array DirtDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMan;
    I want to purchase as a gift a handgun (possibly an XD .40 4inch) for my brother as a gift. I do not want to subvert the law in any way shape or means. Straw purchases are something that we must be very wary of. I can not legally answer the question if I am buying this for myself, because I am not, its for my brother. Yes he is legally able to own a weapon - that isn't the issue. If we go into the store and he fills out the paper work for the background check and I make payment - there is the appearance of a straw purchase, and I know of a few places that will only make the transaction with the individual that filled out the paperwork.

    Any suggestions?
    Ask the dealer the proper procedure for doing this-or your state attorney general's office. No one's opinion here is gonna protect you if "someone" decides what you're doing is fishy.

    My .02
    Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
    Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDawg View Post
    Ask the dealer the proper procedure for doing this-or your state attorney general's office. No one's opinion here is gonna protect you if "someone" decides what you're doing is fishy.

    My .02
    There is no reason to involve people who will give bad advice to CYA. The dealer will say whatever they think will expose them to the least real or imagined liability and the state AG will have no pionion on the matter if no state law regulates the transfer of firearms between private parties because the law against staw purchases is a Federal one. I guess you could call the USDOJ if one were supremely retentive.

    Gifting a gun is legal in ALL states. A few states require a dealer to handle private transaction. New Hampshire is not one of them.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    There is no reason to involve people who will give bad advice to CYA. The dealer will say whatever they think will expose them to the least real or imagined liability and the state AG will have no pionion on the matter if no state law regulates the transfer of firearms between private parties because the law against staw purchases is a Federal one. I guess you could call the USDOJ if one were supremely retentive.

    Gifting a gun is legal in ALL states. A few states require a dealer to handle private transaction. New Hampshire is not one of them.

    Be that as it may , If the gun is purchased from a n FFL - The
    Federal NICS must be done - and will ALWAYS be Linked to
    THAT Individual.
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    {Bernhard Goetz}

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsrule View Post
    Be that as it may , If the gun is purchased from a n FFL - The
    Federal NICS must be done - and will ALWAYS be Linked to
    THAT Individual.
    So?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMan View Post
    I want to purchase as a gift a handgun (possibly an XD .40 4inch) for my brother as a gift. I do not want to subvert the law in any way shape or means. Straw purchases are something that we must be very wary of. I can not legally answer the question if I am buying this for myself, because I am not, its for my brother. Yes he is legally able to own a weapon - that isn't the issue. If we go into the store and he fills out the paper work for the background check and I make payment - there is the appearance of a straw purchase, and I know of a few places that will only make the transaction with the individual that filled out the paperwork.

    Any suggestions?
    Best way is for them to buy it and you gift the money later.

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