A brief reminder that concealed carry is a lifestyle, not a fad - Page 2

A brief reminder that concealed carry is a lifestyle, not a fad

This is a discussion on A brief reminder that concealed carry is a lifestyle, not a fad within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes What gun do you recommend for a person who wants only to intimidate or scare and not actually use for its ...

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Thread: A brief reminder that concealed carry is a lifestyle, not a fad

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    What gun do you recommend for a person who wants only to intimidate or scare and not actually use for its intended purpose?
    I think the only thing you can do is recommend they don't buy one. Carrying a gun if you're not willing to take a life in defense of yourself or a loved one is extremely irresponsible and an invitation for tragedy for yourself or someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    They have to seek practice and training and proficiency in their weapon, its accessories, its applications and its limits.
    This is one I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. Far too many people seem to buy a gun for self defense, maybe even get their carry permit, but never seek out the training they need to use it safely and effectively, so they won't be a danger to themselves or others.

    It seems like there are a couple of kinds of people when it comes to self defense training. Some people don't train or practice at all. They seem to believe the gun is a magic talisman that will keep them safe from harm. What it would be like if they ever had to use it never seems to cross their mind. I've heard stories of people who've never even fired the gun they bought for self defense. What if it doesn't work? How do they expect to be able to shoot accurately without any practice? I just can't understand people like this. Heck, I've run about six hundred rounds through my new Glock, and I'm just barely confident enough in the gun and my ability to employ it that I'm ready to start carrying it.

    Other people seem to think that going to the range and punching paper a couple of times a year is sufficient preparation for defending themselves. The more I learn about using a firearm for self defense, the more I'm struck by how little of it is about marksmanship. Being able to put bullets where you want them is certainly a necessary skill, but it is hardly sufficient. Far more important is learning how not to get shot! Shooting like you would on a day at the range in a lethal force situation is a great way to end up dead.

    I try not to think about these things too much, because it's kind of depressing. However, I'm heartened by how much interest there does seem to be in good training. The Utah Polite Society has offered new shooter courses twice in the past couple of months and both times we've gotten quite a response (sixteen and seventeen people respectively). Some of this may be due to recent events like Trolley Square and Virginia Tech, but there seems to be a genuine interest out there in learning how to use a gun effectively in self defense.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdlv4_0 View Post
    Ahhh, the State of Michigan required NRA class, I don't know what was worse, the other students or the instructors being all tacti-cooled out and talking like they were "Delta Operators"
    Actually the instructor was o.k. ,other than the excessive story telling ,bad J. Wayne impressions and lack of decent range officers. Luckily I had prior training , so most of what he was lax on or wrong I ignored.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  3. #18
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    I think you'll find as you go on in life, and got older and crotchety, people will get more and more amazing.

    I one helped teach a basic pistol safety calss and we had a woman who was so frightened by handguns she couldn't even HOLD a pistol. Fortunately we managed to get her past that but it did take two classes to get her through.


    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    The woman surprised me by saying, "Oh, I don't want to kill anyone. I just want to scare them or shoot them in the leg maybe."

    Both my colleague and myself exchanged worried looks.

    What gun do you recommend for a person who wants only to intimidate or scare and not actually use for its intended purpose?
    The wiseguy in me would badly want to say "cap gun"!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  4. #19
    Member Array dls56's Avatar
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    Great post Limatunes.
    I was fortunate many years ago and got firearm training for a LEO position. We were schooled by not only a firearms expert (state champion shooter) but two lawyers talked to us, one gave the cons of deadly force and the other gave us the pros. It certainly was enlightening to learn the legal aspects. What I gleaned from it was the import of being in the right. With that said it will more than likely be a split second decision.
    Bottom line is if a person doesn't feel capable of this kind of decision making or are at odds about using deadly force then carrying a gun isn't for them.

  5. #20
    Member Array Randal16-1's Avatar
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    Lima, great post and so true. I also work at a gun store part time and the stories we could tell are never ending. It is a life style and it's not for everyone, all we can do is try and educate them the best we can. I must also say this place is the best for learning that life style.


    Brian

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robere View Post
    Great post as usual Lima. It scares me to think of the people carrying that give no thought of the proper way to do so, or that don't take the time to practice and know their weapon. I'm sure many just stick it in their pocket ( no holster ) or go mexican style. Then theres the ones that have to let everyone know they carry like its a macho thing.
    The woman you spoke of that said she just wanted to shoot someone in the leg. HOW SCAREY IS THAT??
    On another point, I know 3 people that have permits that only carry when they travel. Like that's the only time they feel they are in danger. One lives in Louisville and works in town. Go figure.
    I'm sure you have to keep a tight lip on a daily basis. I applaud you for keeping your cool when that woman got on your case.
    Lima, your post comes in a very timely manner as I was going to give my brother one of my pistols for his upcoming birthday. This being his first firearm, I told him my giving him one was contingent upon his taking a safety class and at least one hour of live-fire private instruction. He doesn't think either one of those stipulations is reasonable, so unless he changes his mind he aint getting a freebie from me. That would be like handing a Bach Strad to a six month-old and expecting to hear Doc Severinsen.

    Most of these stories (like Scary Lady) sound like plain ignorance of never having handled or fired firearms or taken real situations into account. Hey, in the movies, only the bad guys miss, and when they get shot they fly through the air like rag dolls.
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  7. #22
    Senior Member Array mocarryguy's Avatar
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    So, anyone have the facts on number of CCW's vs. those that carry on a daily or ongoing basis? Truthfully, as I said earlier, I think most would be surprised at the numbers.
    I know, I know, you are smarter than me..just ask you..

  8. #23
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    Great post Lima. Maybe you could write up a sticky on this topic. Many folks don't think of all the aspects and as you stated the "lifestyle change" that has to be made when you decide to take on the extra responsibility of CCW.

    I can see where a sticky on the topic of lifestyle change would be a real benefit to our new members. Something to give them a glimpse into our lives.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_kayaker View Post
    Great post Lima. Maybe you could write up a sticky on this topic. Many folks don't think of all the aspects and as you stated the "lifestyle change" that has to be made when you decide to take on the extra responsibility of CCW.

    I can see where a sticky on the topic of lifestyle change would be a real benefit to our new members. Something to give them a glimpse into our lives.
    I agree, this post and especially the one that CCW9mm referenced are very well written and very descriptive of the steps required both before and afer deciding to carry a concealed firearm.

    Maybe sticky it in the "New Members Intriduce Yourselves" section.

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array BIG E's Avatar
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    Come to think of it. You could also write up something on this topic for the folks that come onto your shooting range to discuss CCW. It may be worthwhile to approach your boss and discuss the idea.

    I can see your stock rising.
    Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!

    -- Theodore Roosevelt --

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Lima just remember when them people start the why do you carry a gun blah blah blah ya tell um cause you don't

    Course the i can always shoot you in the leg and run line only works for when a bear is chasing you in the woods

  12. #27
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    If someone was cussing me out for doing something that is my God-given right to do (and protected by the 2A at that) I would not be listening politely. I would let them know that their comments were offensive and that &#$! well better keep their opinions to themselves.

    Strange she would work at a gun shop. She ought to find another vocation if she's so afraid of guns.

  13. #28
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    You could have satisfied both your saleswoman instincts and you CCWer instincts by getting her to buy a copy and READ Massad Ayoob's "In the Gravest Extreme". I would have tried to get her to read the book and come back a week later for me to give her a short quiz on the book to make sure she had read it cover to cover. If she reads the book and has a lick of sense, (kinda doubtful, given her statement but most people have the capacity to learn) she'll know that a firearm is not a glorified noise maker. Then and only then would I proceed in selling her the appropriate products and/or training, based on her level of comfort, state of mind, etc.
    "An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
    - Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    She said, "I don't see why anyone would need a gun."

    To which Lima said, "Well, when the robbers come in here and start helping themselves to the contents of the register, start taking guns off the wall and start shooting the staff I want to be able to survive, YMMV."

  15. #30
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    Great post Lima. And I would suggest that you speak to the owner about the office manager. If she was cussing and using obscenities toward you, that is something he or she (owner) needs to know.

    And let me be the first to say, with every well written and thought out post or thread you put up it becomes more and more apparent to me that you need to be writing a 2A column in some magazine. You could be the female 2A writer for NRA to be honest. You write very well and your articles are very well reasoned and logical. I look forward to each reading many more of your observations about the gun shop.

    Well done.
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