Ohio signs prohibiting concealed carry?

[tapout1003]

Hi guys i need some info. We all know ohio is a goofy state and lately i've been seeing new little "static" stickers on a couple of the stop and robs. The it pretty much says "no guns regardless of ohio license". They are about 5x7. My question is what is the penalty for not noticing. I'm not talking about breaking the law on purpose. These signs are small ! They aren't even located on the doors...but a window on the front of the store. This also doesn't apply to FED buildings. I'm talking about local stores that are legal.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SIXTO]

Most signs posted on private business is not posted correctly, but that is subject to opinion. There is no clear cut regulations, only that it is on the door and in a easy place to spot. Arguments are made that is up to the ccw holder to look for the sign.

It is a misdeameanor to carry a gun into a private business that is posted, you could get a small amount of jail time, a fine and your ccw yanked. More likely you will get a summons and your ccw yanked, that is provided you are convicted. It would be a very easy charge to beat, but who wants that hassle?

Here is some reading for you-

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.1212

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12

[JusticeDun]

It would be a trespassing charge if the owner wished to pursue it...most of the time they will just ask you to leave.

The best coarse of action is don't patronize the place and then inform them why.

You also have to remember that they don't need a sign. In fact, if they see you carrying and they ask you to leave, you are obliged to do so or
it will become trespassing.

[tapout1003]

If it's not on the door it doesn't matter? A small sticker is not enough. If they do not want you to carry there they should post the same ghostbuster 8.5 X 11 that the others do. Maybe they post it out of the way hoping people won't see it and complain. But it's still there for them to point at. I'm ordering NO GUNS NO MONEY cards today.

[Doc Holliday]

I always thought that you could ignore these and the worst that could happen was a criminal tresspass charge. However I am not a lawyer so do not follow the advice you see in my posts.

Thank God for Kel Tec!*

*Not that I advocate carrying into a posted private buisness area because I don't.

[MeanStreaker]

I am certainly not a lawyer, but I believe there is some misinformation in this thread. Consult an attorney to be certain. I have cut/pasted the relevant code below.

With that typical disclaimer... :)

The short answer to your question is that you could be charged with criminal trespass and a M4. Notice that it doesn't say the owner has to press charges or ask you to leave first. As I read the law, if you are knowingly violating a private posted CPZ (Criminal Protection Zone) in Ohio, you can instantly be charged.

Notice that I used the word "knowingly". That's how the Ohio Revised Code below describes it. If you can prove that you didn't see the sign, then you should be OK. Not sure how you prove that though. Hopefully, law enforcement or a prosecutor would use good judgement for a tiny clear sticker hidden somewhere out of the way.

There are no requirements on how a private posted business notifies you. It can be a sign on the door, it can be a sign posted behind the register. It can be "No Guns" scrawled in crayon in the back corner of a dressing room. Once you know that they forbid concealed carry, you are instantly breaking the law.

Section 2923.126 (B)

(3) The owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. A person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

[ttpete]

I'd go to the OFCC website and make sure the store is placed on their Do Not Patronize list, then print a copy out and attach it to the letter you will write to the store's owner. OFCC has a sticker on their website that you can put under their no guns sign. It infers that the store is safe for criminals to come and rob them because nobody is armed.

[johnisaly]

+1 to everything MeanStreaker posted.

Most signs posted on private business is not posted correctly…..

Ohio law does not specify a specific type, size, or location for private business postings. The fault for this lies in the poorly drafted legislation.

There is no clear cut regulations, only that it is on the door and in a easy place to spot.

Agree and disagree. The law seems to only suggest that the sign for private businesses be in a “conspicuous location”. You are only violating the law if you enter a business “knowing” that they forbid guns.

If a business owner posts a hand written sign in the back corner of his business, you are not violating the law if you can’t see it. But the minute you walk back to that corner of the room and see the sign, you are now “informed” of their wishes. You need to leave immediately and not return to that business while armed.

There is no place in Ohio law that specifies that a private business must post on the “door”. Ohio law for private businesses only states “conspicuous location”, but you are still in violation if it is not in a conspicuous location and you are made “aware” of their wishes by any means……….either written or oral.

The signage requirements for enumerated government buildings, schools, day care centers, etc. are much more specific about the wording of the sign, but even then it does not specify that it must be on the door, only a conspicuous location.

In my opinion, if they are going shove this stupid requirement down our throats / the sign should be of specific size, color, content / it should then be placed at a specific height on or immediately beside the door. Ohio lawmakers can't seem to grasp that concept.

[Smith&Wessonfan]

If you conceal your gun like you are supposed to, this will never be an issue unless you draw in anger to save yourself.

By then, there will be other more pressing issues at hand.

For that reason, if I in the hypothetical situation that I would someday ever knowingly go into a CPZ while armed and something went down, I would unass the premises ASAP and let others deal with the criminals. Only if I was cornered would I draw and open fire.

[mitchpilot]

I had a similar situation occur this week. I went to eat at a Chinese place I had never visited before. No signs on the door on the way in, nothing that alerted me to the fact that I was about to break the law. I ate my meal and as I paid, I saw the signs in a corner by the front door (so that you couldn't see them unless you walked in the door and then turned around and looked back out toward the street) that this was a liquor establishment and it was illegal to carry a gun. I swear, I never saw so much as a beer sign or an O'Doule's coaster. There was definitely no bar there. They must serve alcohol on their menu, but since I did the buffet thing, I didn't have any way of knowing they served anything stronger than Coca Cola.

All the exemptions in the CCW laws are worthless (especially in Ohio!). It's not like I'm gonna go to rob a store, but then stop and reconsider at the door because it's illegal to take my piece with me!
("I was OK with breaking the law against armed robbery, but I'd better not break the law against carrying a handgun on the premises!")

It's just feel-good sop for the liberals who oppose CCW.

The only thing these laws do is cause honest CCW permit holders to unknowingly break the law on occasion. I really do try to follow the law, because I don't want to cause any problems that would encourage the politicians to take this privilege away from us. But those hidden signs are a real problem.

Is there anything percolating in the political arena to make the laws more sensible?

[Smith&Wessonfan]

Is there anything percolating in the political arena to make the laws more sensible?

Ohio House Bill 225

[SIXTO]

Let me clarify my post a little... The ORC does not say anything about being on the door, but they would have a hard time making the charge stick if its not. The tiny stickers that are most common are almost always shoved out of they way lost in the jungle of other advertisements.
With that said, I dont think I would want to have the hassle of testing out the law and if the shop owner wants prosecution.
FWIW, if the shop owner or agent of the owner chooses not to persue charges, there is no crime. Most places dont want to take the time to go after shoplifters, I doubt they would go after someone who did them no damage.