Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting

This is a discussion on Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm for the guy without the badge. There are a lot of good cops, but the bad ones are out there. (NOT a bash) This ...

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Thread: Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    I'm for the guy without the badge. There are a lot of good cops, but the bad ones are out there. (NOT a bash) This could be a case of a cop pulling a power trip on the wrong guy. Honestly, no matter what happend in the "honking/road-rage" incident, it would not justify a firearm presented by the officer. And really, do we believ this guy is going to shoot ACROSS his wife for no good reason? He's probably still hearing it about the ringing in her ears and the burns from the brass!!!!!!!
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin


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  3. #17
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    Bottom line , don't stop to argue/ continue an argument . While everyone has the right to defend themselves, the situation apparently elevated because cooler heads did not prevail.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  4. #18
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    This is a very strange story. I cannot imagine Treptow would draw and fire his weapon unless he was in fear that his family was threatened. It seems extraordinarily dangerous to fire into the door of a car.

    And even if the officer did identify himself, there is absolutely no justification for the LE to have drawn his weapon first.

    Why didn't Treptow just drive away? The article says they were stopped in traffic but then the officer's car rolled backwards and hit a business. Not exactly bumper to bumper. And how did the officer fall out of his car onto the side of the road? The force of the strikes sent him across the car and the passenger door just happenned to open?

    The message is do not let road rage escalate. Nothing good can possibly come of it.

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array PapaScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien Nation View Post
    +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
    +1E50

    When you carry a gun you need to be *at least* a notch above normal when controlling your emotions. No yelling at other motorists, no giving the finger, no driving aggressively.

    But... I agree that there seems to be more to this story than has of yet been shared.
    "If you so much as bunny hop I'll cut your heart out!" Billy Bob Thornton in The Last Real Cowboys

    "I carry a gun for the same reason that I carry health insurance and a cell phone - be prepared."

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array mark555's Avatar
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    Just from the read, the news report, Mr. Treptow being released and the proximaty of the wife and kids it tends to put me in his camp.
    "Hell of a thing, killin' a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have."
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  7. #21
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    Normally I would come out and defender at least explain the LEO's actions, I cant here. Where did we get the idea that the LEO was working undercover as the title of the thread states? Clearly he was not, as the second article points out. Even if he was, why would he involve himself with a traffic violation?
    This is clearly a case of road rage, and it sounds like the shooter is OK.

    Also, a little tidbit... the dept. says that he was on duty because if an officer sees a violation and acts on it, he is now "on duty". This covers a lot of the liability that comes up. I'm guessing the LEO saw some sort of violation and was trying to act on it.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Where did we get the idea that the LEO was working undercover as the title of the thread states? Clearly he was not, as the second article points out.
    Martin Scott Treptow walked out of the Anoka County Jail on Friday afternoon and promptly declared his innocence.

    "It was self-defense," he said moments after being released without charges in the shooting of an undercover police officer the day before.

    The original article/news report also stated that he was undercover.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

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  9. #23
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    I have no idea how this is going to play out. What I can say is that for an undercover officer who definitely KNOWS he has a gun to involve himself in a road rage incident is troubling at best. The story did not report that either party was traveling along shouting obscenities at each other either. It sounds like a minor courtesy infraction ie, cutting someone off or something else minor, got the situation started.

    In anycase, a plain clothed officer in an unmarked vehicle, I would think needed to pull out his badge and ID himself before pulling out his gun. (unless the other motorist had his gun pointed first)

    Again, I have no idea how this is going to play out or that we have all the facts, but all of us as ccw holders should be very interested in the outcome and what all the facts were.

    I hope people close to the sources keep posting updates on this story!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Npete7381 View Post
    The original article/news report also stated that he was undercover.
    Ahh OK, I missed the first ref.

    Even so, I think it was a little creative writing by the newspaper. I have a hard time believing that a undercover officer is going to concern himself with a traffic case... but I 've seen people do worse.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Even so, I think it was a little creative writing by the newspaper. I have a hard time believing that a undercover officer is going to concern himself with a traffic case... but I 've seen people do worse.
    The impression I get from the articles is not that the officer was doing any sort of traffic enforcement, but that he was a participant in a road rage incident. An officer performing a normal traffic stop doesn't pull up next to a car at a light and draw his gun.

  12. #26
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    I was in a situation back when I was in my 20s that we were acting foolish on the higway (go figure) and an off duty cop started after us. We panicked until he pulled up next to us and flashed his badge. Long story short, his actions after we stopped allowed the local police (once they arrived) to release us, but even with his out of control rage at what we had done, his first reaction was to identify himself.

    Even though I do not know the whole story, I would have to think that it is ingrained in their subconscious to pull identification as soon as possible, leading me to believe that he might be thinking in his right mind to begin with.

    As he is a LEO, I am glad the he survived to tell the story another day, but it sems from the inital look that this is a painful lesson that no matter if you are a LEO or not, controlling your emotions and road rage is always the best case scenario.

  13. #27
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    Definitely a can of worms here.

    It'll be up to the suits (detectives) to sort this out. That's why they make the big bucks.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

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    Terry

  14. #28
    New Member Array glock+ipod's Avatar
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    I live in the Twin Cities metro area. There's been some discussion of this incident here on our local forum:

    http://www.twincitiescarry.com/forum...766&highlight=
    "BBC bias hurts on a personal level, doesn't it? It's like having a favorite childhood relative who turns out to be a criminal." -- My brother.

  15. #29
    New Member Array Inebrius's Avatar
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    There have been 5 or so different revisions of these articles with 2 different flavors. Minneapolis Star Tribune is an anti-gun rag pile of crap that is extremely biased against the shooter in this incident. The other flavor coming from the St. Paul Pioneer press that has been very objective and obviously trying to stick to the facts without siding one way or the other. I wouldn't trust anything the Minneapolis Star and Tribune prints as fact. They will blatantly lie to give gun owners, especially permit to carry gun owners a black eye. They have a liberal democrat agenda to uphold.

    Shellum is the police chief at the Robbinsdale PD (western suburb of Minneapolis). The officer that was shot is from his PD. Shellum is refusing to release the officer's identity claiming that the officer was working "undercover" not plain clothes. There is speculation amongst average Joe Minnesotan's that Shellum isn't being forthright and just covering up for his out of control officer.

    Minneapolis Star Tribune keeps riddling their stories with this crap as if it has anything at all to do with the story...

    Denise Clochie manages the Crystal House gift store near Foley and 99th Avenue, where the shooting occurred.

    "I just thought people are crazy. Who carries a gun around and who gets so angry over driving?" she said. "The saddest thing was he had two kids in the car."

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    The impression I get from the articles is not that the officer was doing any sort of traffic enforcement, but that he was a participant in a road rage incident. An officer performing a normal traffic stop doesn't pull up next to a car at a light and draw his gun.
    Yeah, I know. Thats why I have a hard time believing he was doing anything work related.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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