Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting

This is a discussion on Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just came across this while checking some news headlines, what is your opinion of this situation? Obviously I hate to hear about any LEO ...

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Thread: Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting

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    Member Array Npete7381's Avatar
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    Undercover LEO vs. Permit Holder Shooting

    I just came across this while checking some news headlines, what is your opinion of this situation? Obviously I hate to hear about any LEO getting shot, but from the details in the story it sounds like the guy was justified.

    http://wcco.com/local/local_story_159164139.html
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

    -- Robert A. Heinlein

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    Member Array mr.squatch's Avatar
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    Interested to hear more details, the story seems intentionally vague. If the man was calm and clear-headed, good for him. If the confrontation was between him and the leo and it got so heated that it led to a gunfight, i dunno, that's a tough call. Hopefully more info will come thru.

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    I will be wanting to hear more information about this. Tough situation.
    Mark

    "The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose."

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    Member Array Npete7381's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    I will be wanting to hear more information about this. Tough situation.
    Me too, I'll watch for new developments and keep you guys updated.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."

    -- Robert A. Heinlein

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Not to be a "Cop Basher", I carry Fed LEO creds myself, but what was an undersover LEO doing making a stop?

    Why couldn't the uniformed officers be called in to make the arrest? Something smells "fishy" but just because it smells "fishy" don't mean it's a salmon.

    I will refrain from judgement until more facts are in. This situation doesn't look good for the LEO, from my perspective. However, not all the facts are in, and the investigation is ongoing.

    Biker

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    Minn. Anoka County authorities have released without charges a man suspected of shooting and wounding an undercover Robbinsdale police officer.
    That right there says volumes.

    A guy shot a cop and was released ? Without charges ?

    Obviously, something aint right . I guess we'll find out soon enough.
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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This is the second road rage with a CCW and cop story I've seen in two days (!).

    We citizen CCW types must brush off road raging jerks, who just might maybe be a cop.
    This scenario and the other from yesterday are exactly what the antis figured would occur with allowance of legalized concealed carry.

    Cooler heads must prevail, that is a moral if not legal requirement toward being a concealed carry person.
    Who the heck cares if the other guy gets through the light ahead of you...life is too short to sweat that and take/give bullets over it.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is the second road rage with a CCW and cop story I've seen in two days (!).

    We citizen CCW types must brush off road raging jerks, who just might maybe be a cop.
    This scenario and the other from yesterday are exactly what the antis figured would occur with allowance of legalized concealed carry.

    Cooler heads must prevail, that is a moral if not legal requirement toward being a concealed carry person.
    Who the hell cares if the other guy gets through the light ahead of you...life is too short to sweat that and take/give bullets over it.

    - Janq
    +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
    “You come at me with a sword and with a spear. But I come at you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you". 1 Samuel 17, 45-46
    Brian

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    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Uh oh. That's gonna cause serious inflation in the "+1" phenomenon.

    What does one have to do to top that?

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    “You come at me with a sword and with a spear. But I come at you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you". 1 Samuel 17, 45-46
    Brian

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    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    I have relatives who live in Crystal, MN (right next door to Robbinsdale) and I called them about this. He works closely with the PD (Not a LEO of an means) which has given him a friend or two inside. He didn't know much about the case, other than the LEO that was shot, if it who he thinks it is, is an excellent choice for undercover work, because in uniform he is an embarrassment.

    There is no confirmation on this at all, just "insider" suspicions.
    "Gun Free Zones" is where only criminals carry guns.

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    Member Array Aelbric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This is the second road rage with a CCW and cop story I've seen in two days (!).

    We citizen CCW types must brush off road raging jerks, who just might maybe be a cop.
    This scenario and the other from yesterday are exactly what the antis figured would occur with allowance of legalized concealed carry.

    Cooler heads must prevail, that is a moral if not legal requirement toward being a concealed carry person.
    Who the hell cares if the other guy gets through the light ahead of you...life is too short to sweat that and take/give bullets over it.

    - Janq
    I'm kinda new to this but doesn't the following quote seem to justify his actions?:

    "We're about three feet away from each other and he's pointing the gun at my wife, so it was a tough situation, where I couldn't drive away at that particular moment, I had to defend my family," Treptow said.

    The question I would ask is why an undercover police officer is pulling his weapon after a traffic stop.

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    VIP Member Array semperfi.45's Avatar
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    It never even says the cop made a "stop" he just got out at the light with gun drawn.

    As a Supervisor, I drive an unmarked in uniform and I encounter it every day. I choose to ignore road rage but not the driving violation.
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    New Member Array Inebrius's Avatar
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    Successful defense the carry community wont be proud of...

    Road-rage shooting suspect released
    Motorist says he protected his family, alleges undercover cop pulled a gun first
    BY DAVE ORRICK and MARY BAUER
    Pioneer Press
    Article Last Updated: 06/08/2007 1009 PM CDT


    Martin Scott Treptow walked out of the Anoka County Jail on Friday afternoon and promptly declared his innocence.

    "It was self-defense," he said moments after being released without charges in the shooting of an undercover police officer the day before.

    Treptow, a 35-year-old former security officer from Coon Rapids with a license to carry a concealed handgun, shot the Robbinsdale officer Thursday afternoon, injuring him, in a vehicle-to-vehicle road-rage shooting near a busy Anoka County intersection.

    That officer has told investigators a different story, putting them in a quandary, they acknowledge.

    Key to that quandary might be who pulled his gun first, if both actually did.

    According to Treptow, it was the officer - who he says never identified himself.

    "The other gentleman pulled the weapon on myself and my family," he told reporters. "We're about 3 feet away from each other, and he's pointing the gun at my wife. ... I had to protect my family."

    With his two children in the back and his wife in the passenger seat of their SUV, Treptow drew his gun, reached across the lap of his wife, Rebecca, and fired into the undercover officer's car, striking him in each leg and in one arm, he said.

    Through a close acquaintance, the police officer declined to comment to local media Thursday evening. Coon Rapids police say his story differs from what Treptow and his wife told investigators, but what's not in dispute is that the officer never fired his weapon. He was treated and released from an area hospital Thursday.
    "We are getting two different versions of what happened: the Treptow version and the officer's version, and they are in contradiction," Coon Rapids Deputy Police Chief Timothy Snell said.

    Although Robbinsdale police have said the officer was on duty, none of the Treptows were involved in the officer's undercover investigations, police have said.

    Citing pending investigations, the officer's safety and state laws that allow police to withhold information about undercover officers, Robbinsdale Police Chief Wayne Shellum refused to release information about the officer, other than to say he's been a sworn officer for four years and has had no disciplinary actions against him.

    Without going into details, Shellum appeared to be standing by his guy Friday. "The focus is, this is a road-rage deal, and some guy with his wife and kids decides to end this thing by shooting somebody," he said.

    Coon Rapids police and Anoka County prosecutors also refused to release the officer's name.

    Prosecutor James Weber said the investigation is continuing, and charges could still be filed.

    "There's no indication that he's going to be charged or that he's not going to be charged," Weber said of Treptow. Authorities haven't ruled out charges against the police officer, either.

    The shooting occurred Thursday afternoon in Coon Rapids near Foley Boulevard and U.S. 10.

    It began with a dispute over driving courtesy. Treptow's family has said the officer was driving aggressively as the two vehicles drove on side roads outside a strip mall along 99th Avenue Northwest. At one point, Treptow honked at the other driver. Treptow declined to "go into details" about what sparked it all, as have Coon Rapids police.

    Shots rang out around 2:35 p.m. while both vehicles were stopped in traffic where 99th feeds onto Foley, Snell said. The officer fell out of his car and onto the side of the road, while his car rolled backward across 99th, coming to rest when it hit a pizzeria. Treptow drove a few blocks to a Holiday gas station, where his wife called 911 from her cell phone. Treptow's father, also named Martin Treptow, told the Pioneer Press on Thursday that the couple drove off because they feared the man - who they didn't know was a cop - would fire at them.

    Police took both adult Treptows into custody. They released Rebecca but booked Martin in the county jail on suspicion of aggravated assault.

    Throughout the morning Friday, prosecutors and investigators with Anoka County and Coon Rapids talked over the case, as prosecutors considered whether to charge Treptow in a criminal complaint that would have required an appearance before a judge to set bail. Snell said Coon Rapids police gave no recommendations regarding charges against anyone involved.

    Shortly before 1 p.m., Weber announced authorities were setting Treptow free pending further investigation. He declined to talk about specifics of the case.

    The statute of limitations for aggravated assault is three years, although authorities have the ability to publicly clear anyone involved if they want to.

    Treptow has no known criminal history in Minnesota beyond minor traffic incidents, according to police and court records.

    Staff reporter John Brewer contributed to this report.
    http://www.twincities.com/allheadlines/ci_6096526

    Really stupid how he arrived at having to defend his family but successful none the less.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Wow. Not a good situation for anyone involved.

    Now, here's my personal intuition:

    I lean toward believing the Treptows, and their story that the officer flashed his gun first, causing them to fear for their lives. Is it really credible to think that Mr. Treptow would draw and fire his gun at another human being, with his wife and kids in the car, for no valid reason?!

    If they were car-to-car, it's easy to imagine that the cop did not identify himself as a police officer. And would any such attempt necessarily be heard or understood by people in a different car? It's very plausible that Mr. Treptow was put in reasonable fear for his life and the lives of his family, by a man in a car next to them, stopped in traffic, waving a gun. Particularly if they had no reason to feel that a police officer had cause to be pointing a gun at them, it would seem reasonable to expect that a man doing that would scare them and engender a defensive response.

    I'm glad I'm neither the cop nor Mr. Treptow at this time.

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