Empty Holster Tells A Story... - Page 2

Empty Holster Tells A Story...

This is a discussion on Empty Holster Tells A Story... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I had a long talk with the VA Police Sergeant at the Lubbock, Texas VA clinic last year. He cited the Federal laws to me, ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36

Thread: Empty Holster Tells A Story...

  1. #16
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    480
    I had a long talk with the VA Police Sergeant at the Lubbock, Texas VA clinic last year.

    He cited the Federal laws to me, and was very blunt about Federal laws overiding local and state laws. In other words, VA facilities are Federal property, and that's that.

    His opinion of why the VA took the stance they have about no weapons on the property or in the parking lots has to do with the very high number of patients with PTSD related issues. Not all are extreme cases, but there enough to warrent such action. If just one were to explode while talking to a mental health counselor, the availabilty of a weapon either on their person or in the parking lot could turn into a deadly situation in a hurry. The VA has been dealing with a high number of Vietnam related PTSD patients over the years, now the system is being overwhelmed with those who returned from Desert Storm and who are returning currently from Iraq and Afghanastan. That problem will magnify itself greatly when all the troops come home from the war zones.

    While I don't like 'no carry' places any more than the rest of us do, I can see the VA's wisdom in this. While I dealt with PTSD issues for many years, I know mine were minor compared to some. I participated in PTSD discussion groups with other vets for several years. It was clear that some of the more extreme cases thought they were still back in Vietnam whenever they faced a stressful situation or crisis. There were times when those feelings surfaced within our meetings and discussions, but were quickly diffused by the other Vietnam Vets in the room. I can only imagine what could have happened if there had been a gun available during those intense situations. At the very least, we would have all been reading another slanted article by a biased media about a "crazy Vietnam Vet with a gun."

    This is one 'no carry' place I agree with.


  2. #17
    VIP Member
    Array nn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    7,123
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman View Post
    He may have done what I did the last time I had to drive to the VA hospital in Big Spring for some evaluation. I parked on a street just off their grounds behind the VA hospital, locked my gun in the toolbox of my pickup and walked around to the entrance of the building.
    Good approach, I hope one taking this approach would remove the holster as well.

  3. #18
    Member Array devo6684's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Columbus Ohio
    Posts
    141
    DaveT

    I agree that certain venues should be weapon free, however, not everyone submits to these rules and will carry anyway. I really don't expect a troubled or disoriented person from reading a sign that bans weapons. I would think that a place that invites those with mental / aggressive behaviors (this is not a knock on our much respected military veterans!) should have security checkpoints that ensure that no weapon is being brought onto the premises. Unlike the VA Tech catastrophe, everyone in the area would be lambs to the slaughter if one person of troubled mind were able to walk in and unleash on innocents. A legally carrying patient or employee would be able to intervene if this were to happen. Again, we cannot expect that armed security / police are everywhere at once to protect us!

    You hear the stories of people with carry permits that were helpless witnesses to these types of horror and could do nothing because they followed the law and left their weapon home or locked in their vehicle.
    Glock 34 9mm
    Glock 36 .45acp
    Kahr CW9
    S&W 642-2 .38 +P
    Ruger Mark ii 22/45

  4. #19
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    266
    Quote Originally Posted by djstaehlin View Post
    Yes, VA Medical Centers are federal property. They are governed by federal law. State weapons permits and laws (including state-mandated signage requirements (30.06, etc.)) are irrelevant on federal property. That includes state laws prohibiting property owners from banning firearms in their parking lots.
    I am completely against this. Federal laws should not trump a state's laws within that state. If the Federal Government wants to locate a facility (post office, hospital, etc.) within a state, it should have to follow all the laws of that state.

  5. #20
    VIP Member
    Array Echo_Four's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Land of the mostly free
    Posts
    2,846
    Quote Originally Posted by scott4957 View Post
    I live in OK and I am pretty sure that no one can restrict you from haveing your gun in your car, I know for a fact that private business can not, and I'm pretty sure not even state government can restrict you. I'm guessing this is not true in every state? As one gentalman said, just park off the property and then you can keep it in your car, though I agree, why restrict it at all?

    Scott
    Sadly, that isn't true. That is what the law says, but it is tied up in court and an injunction is in place which allows people to restrict the ability to carry in their parking lot. However, the state is not allowed to say that you can't leave a gun in your car on their property. Regardless, the VA is a federal government entity, and thus the state of Oklahoma does not have the ability to force them to do anything.
    "The only people I like besides my wife and children are Marines."
    - Lt. Col. Oliver North

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Columbia, SC
    Posts
    2,147
    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    I am completely against this. Federal laws should not trump a state's laws within that state. If the Federal Government wants to locate a facility (post office, hospital, etc.) within a state, it should have to follow all the laws of that state.
    It doesn't work that way:

    Quote Originally Posted by United States Constitution
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array tanksoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,133
    The sign at the VA in Denver just says that CHLs aren't valid in the building. It doesn't say anything about on the property as a whole.

    I don't know what federal law the VA weapons thing falls under, buyt the law has to prohibit it in writing. Everyone thinks that weapons on federal land is illegal outright, but it isn't... only where specifically prohibited. National Forests or the Post Office for example.
    "I am a Soldier. I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    911
    Have you guys asked if they have a gun locker? Both the VA hospital and the federal building (houses US Dist Court, Fed LE Agencies, etc etc) I go to have such gun lockers. All I have to do is declare at the main gate, park or walk straight to their front desk/metal detector, declare again, be escorted to a clearing barrel, clear my hangdun and then secure it at the gun locker. Desk Sgt keeps one key, I keep the other one - no one has access (in theory) to my gun while I do business with the Feds.

  9. #24
    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Chickasaw, AL
    Posts
    1,838
    Next time there ask the VA Security Police if they have a lock box on premises you can use to keep from leaving it your vehicle.

    The VA clinic where I go lets me use their lock box.
    For God, Family and Country!

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array dwolsten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    266
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    It doesn't work that way:
    Originally Posted by United States Constitution
    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
    Oh, this is just classic. So the Federal government uses the Constitution to justify forcing States to follow Federal laws which are blatantly unConstitutional.

    How about States stand up and refuse to follow any Federal laws unless they are actually Constitutional?

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    508
    I am a veteran and I will NEVER set foot inside a Federal medical facility.

    The less interaction I have with the Feds, the less power our corrupt. bloated, and borderline unconstitutional government has over me.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array JimmyC4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Minnesnowta
    Posts
    2,034
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Next time there ask the VA Security Police if they have a lock box on premises you can use to keep from leaving it your vehicle.

    The VA clinic where I go lets me use their lock box.
    At Minneapolis VAMC, the sign at the driveway entrance states prohibition of firearms anywhere on VAMC property, including parking lots. Given that, it seems obvious that they aren't going to provide a lock box.
    "It's a big gun when I carry it, it is also a big gun when I take it out” – Clint Smith

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array AnimalKracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eastern Arkansas
    Posts
    1,382
    Quote Originally Posted by dwolsten View Post
    Oh, this is just classic. So the Federal government uses the Constitution to justify forcing States to follow Federal laws which are blatantly unConstitutional.

    How about States stand up and refuse to follow any Federal laws unless they are actually Constitutional?
    We tried that one already. The War of Northern Aggression.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Puerto Rico
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyC View Post
    the sign at the driveway entrance states prohibition of firearms anywhere on VAMC property, including parking lots. Given that, it seems obvious that they aren't going to provide a lock box.
    We have that same kind of sings down at my VAMC. I asked what was the protocol to secure my firearm, and they told me bring it to the Desk Sgt to lock it up. Just go in to the Security Office and ask to speak with the man in charge; if he says no, file a complaint - there are some VAMCs that let you store your firearm and some that don't (you are not being treated like the rest of the people that store firearms on other VAMCs).

  15. #30
    New Member Array b3xd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3
    Yes, and because they are Federal property they can and do ban firearms in the VA and on the property itself.

    Think about it gentlemen - a number of the clients are going there to be treated for PTSD and its attendent problems. Do you really want someone with a traumatic flashback of an IED with a gun in the parking lot?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Empty Holster Friday's
    By Purdue54 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: April 21st, 2009, 01:46 AM
  2. Empty Holster
    By Malazan in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: March 21st, 2008, 12:21 PM
  3. Empty Holster
    By archer51 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: February 18th, 2008, 05:50 PM
  4. Empty Holster
    By Blackeagle in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: May 29th, 2007, 03:18 PM
  5. Empty holster question
    By traffic777 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 6th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Search tags for this page

30.06 empty holster

,

can company fire employee gun in car oregon

,

can my employer tell me i can't carry a gun

,

carrying concealed on veteran affairs property

,

conceal carry rental car

,

concealed carry company rental car

,

concealed carry renting car

,

federal employee, empty holster

,

federal government building, empty holster texas

,

fired empty holster

,

oklahoma title 21 ? 1289.7a

,

title 21 1289.7a

Click on a term to search for related topics.