Oklahoma Laws

Oklahoma Laws

This is a discussion on Oklahoma Laws within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; OK, we're traveling to Tulsa later this week and I was wondering if someone could give me a rundown in plain English what the prohibited ...

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Thread: Oklahoma Laws

  1. #1
    M2 [OP]
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    Oklahoma Laws

    OK, we're traveling to Tulsa later this week and I was wondering if someone could give me a rundown in plain English what the prohibited areas are for carrying. I've read §21-1277. Unlawful Carry In Certain Places, which is pretty straightforward, but I get a bit confused over §21-1272.1 Carrying Firearms Where Liquor Is Consumed. Does this mean it is illegal to carry anywhere alcohol is served, to include restaurants? Or does this strictly refer to bars and clubs and the like? Texas has the 51% revenue rule, which distinguishes between the two.

    Also, are establishments in Oklahoma required to post a sign prohibiting concealed carry?

    Cheers! M2


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    Member Array Bashful's Avatar
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    The way I read 21-1272.1, you can carry in an establishment which sells alchohol for consumption as long as "the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business."

    You should be good to go into restaurants, Chili's, etc., but stay away from bars and taverns.

    In Texas, we have it pretty easy. We look for the 30.06 and 51% signs to tell us where we can't spend our $$$.
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    Bars are off limits, restaurants are OK. I don't have any way to back this up, but it is common thought that the bar area of someplace like Applebees would be off limits, but a regular table would not.

    Places that are not strictly prohibited by law can post a sign, and there is no specific sign like you have in Texas. But, most places aren't posted.

    While you're in Tulsa, visit Average Joe's Eatery. The owner is a gun guy and posts regularly on the forum at okshooters.com. It is always good to help out the people on our side.
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    E4 hit it on the head. The best bet is to look for the 21 and over signs.

    Some will say that the no weapons signs have no weight because businesses open to the public are not the same are personal property such as a home or personal land. Therefore the tresspassing law is what is enforced not the unlawful carry. Different LEO's will tell you different answers, but its not really up to them. I don't particularly want to be the test case for that situation. I'd rather be safe and not spend my money there.

    All that being said, I have yet to see any posted places that are not already excluded (federal buildings, courthouse, etc). I know they must exist. I look in every building I enter.
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    We have some gas stations in Stillwater that are posted, but that's all I've come across. Pretty gun friendly state for the most part.
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    M2 [OP]
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    Thanks, but I do find Protect's comment of "Some will say that the no weapons signs have no weight because businesses open to the public are not the same are personal property such as a home or personal land" odd as in Texas businesses are considered private property and the owner has every right to tell anyone to leave that they wish. But I appreciate the firsthand knowledge, for some reason I missed what Bashful caught, the inclusion of one word in 21-1272.1, "you can carry in an establishment which sells alchohol for consumption as long as the sale of low-point beer or alcoholic beverages does not constitute the primary purpose of the business."

    Basically, it is the same ROE as Texas, except Oklahoma doesn't have the 30.06 and 51% sign requirements, which make it a bit easier here...

    Cheers! M2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bashful View Post
    In Texas, we have it pretty easy. We look for the 30.06 and 51% signs to tell us where we can't spend our $$$.
    I don't keep my business away from '51 percent' establishments. Thats a state law to prohibit carry and isn't the fault of the business owner.

    '30.06' is another matter, but really, outside of hospitals, where do you see those? The only place I have seen one is the gun shows, and thats got far more to do with the insurance requirements than the show organizers wanting to prohibit carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Thanks, but I do find Protect's comment of "Some will say that the no weapons signs have no weight because businesses open to the public are not the same are personal property such as a home or personal land" odd as in Texas businesses are considered private property and the owner has every right to tell anyone to leave that they wish.
    Thats just the theory that has been presented to me. After further review, I believe they do have the right to limit the presence of firearms on their property. As far as I'm concerned, I just won't do business in those places, and I'd rather not be the one to put the law to the test. In other states, the signs are spelled out explicitly, but not in Oklahoma.

    Oh, one other thing... Its not mentioned anywhere in the law but Casino's are not covered by the SDA, they are on Tribal land and covered under Tribal law. Parimutuel wagering refers to horse racing and things like that.
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer him—by force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

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    I would think it is easier in Oklahoma than it is in Texas with the 51% signs. Here, if they serve food as a part of their business (and I don't mean nuts and pretzels) then you're OK- even if 60% of their business is from alcohol.

    And businesses are private property. The debate comes about because unlike your home, they are open to the public. That changes some of the rules. For example, you can keep anyone from entering your home for any reason you want. But, if you run a restaurant and try to keep out people of a different race, religion, or ethnic background you're going to get into trouble. It is private property but must be open to the public equally. We've yet to have a test case that made waves about a person carrying in a posted location and being charged with more than simple trespass- so there are questions. Personally, I believe you are guilty of more than simple trespass because you are in direct violation of the Self Defense Act.

    Regardless, hope you enjoy your time in our fine state!
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    Which part?

    Can you quote the portion of law that prohibits carry on posted private property and spells out the punishment for violating that prohibition? If you cannot, then there is no violation of the SDA.
    Jeff
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    Member Array Protect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okgr8outdrs View Post
    Which part?

    Can you quote the portion of law that prohibits carry on posted private property and spells out the punishment for violating that prohibition? If you cannot, then there is no violation of the SDA.
    IANAL, but here are the relevent parts of the Oklahoma SDA
    TITLE 21 § 1290.22. Business owner’s rights
    BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS

    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.
    B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.
    Again IANAL, but this is not directly prohibiting carry in those places, only reinforcing what it says are existing rights, which would probably be in a different set of laws. However, if violation of a business owners wishes constitutes unlawful carry then:
    TITLE 21 § 1272. Unlawful carry
    UNLAWFUL CARRY

    A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry upon or about his or her person, or in a purse or other container belonging to the person, any pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle whether loaded or unloaded or any dagger, bowie knife, dirk knife, switchblade knife, spring-type knife, sword cane, knife having a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, blackjack, loaded cane, billy, hand chain, metal knuckles, or any other offensive weapon, whether such weapon be concealed or unconcealed, except this section shall not prohibit:
    1. The proper use of guns and knives for hunting, fishing, educational or recreational purposes;
    2. The carrying or use of weapons in a manner otherwise permitted by statute or authorized by the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act;
    3. The carrying, possession and use of any weapon by a peace officer or other person authorized by law to carry a weapon in the performance of official duties and in compliance with the rules of the employing agency; or
    4. The carrying and use of firearms and other weapons provided in this subsection when used for the purpose of living history reenactment. For purposes of this paragraph, living history reenactment means depiction of historical characters, scenes, historical life or events for entertainment, education, or historical documentation through the wearing or use of period, historical, antique or vintage clothing, accessories, firearms, weapons, and other implements of the historical period.
    B. Any person convicted of violating the foregoing provision shall be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable as provided in Section 1276 of this title.
    TITLE 21 § 1276. Penalty for 1272 and 1273
    PENALTY FOR 1272 AND 1273

    Any person violating the provisions of Section 1272 or 1273 shall, upon a first conviction, be adjudged guilty of a misdemeanor and the party offending shall be punished by a fine of not less than One Hundred Dollars ($100.00) nor more than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not to exceed thirty (30) days or both such fine and imprisonment. On the second and every subsequent violation, the party offending shall, upon conviction, be punished by a fine of not less than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) nor more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not less than thirty (30) days nor more than three (3) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
    Any person convicted of violating the provisions of Section 1272 or 1273 after having been issued a concealed handgun license pursuant to the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act, shall have the license suspended for a period of six (6) months and shall be liable for an administrative fine of Fifty Dollars ($50.00) upon a hearing and determination by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation that the person is in violation of the provisions of this section.
    Last edited by Protect; June 12th, 2007 at 09:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by okgr8outdrs View Post
    Which part?

    Can you quote the portion of law that prohibits carry on posted private property and spells out the punishment for violating that prohibition? If you cannot, then there is no violation of the SDA.
    First, it does not have to spell out a punishment for it to be a violation of the SDA. All it has to do is say that carry in a posted place is in violation and carrying there would be a violation of the SDA.

    TITLE 21 § 1290.4. Unlawful carry
    UNLAWFUL CARRY
    As provided by Section 1272 of Title 21 of the Oklahoma Statutes, it is unlawful for any person to carry a concealed handgun in this state, except as hereby authorized by the provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1 through 26 of this act, or as may otherwise be provided by law.
    TITLE 21 § 1290.22. Business owner’s rights
    BUSINESS OWNER’S RIGHTS
    A. Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.
    B. No person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity shall be permitted to establish any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting any person, except a convicted felon, from transporting and storing firearms in a locked vehicle on any property set aside for any vehicle.
    Subsection 1 of 1290.22 makes it clear that the person in control of any property has the right to restrict carrying weapons on that property other than locking it in a vehicle. So, carrying a weapon into a place that is posted is a violation of that section of the SDA.
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    M2 [OP]
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    Thanks for the discussion, I think I will play it safe (as usual) and avoid any place that has a sign that prohibits the carrying of concealed weapons in it. I appreciate everyone's help on this, I always feel a little better getting local knowledge in addition to reading the laws when I carry in another state.

    Cheers! M2

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    Echo four,

    You are reading the law wrong. There is no law in Oklahoma that states you MUST obey a posted sign that a business owner puts up.

    The law clearly states where you can not carry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick7340 View Post
    Echo four,

    You are reading the law wrong. There is no law in Oklahoma that states you MUST obey a posted sign that a business owner puts up.

    The law clearly states where you can not carry.
    This one reason we avoid them, its not clear. A judge/jury could very well decide that when the business owner posts, that the place becomes off limits since the SDA law grants them the right to prohibit weapons on their property.
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer him—by force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

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