Detained by Border Patrol in Maine (long)

This is a discussion on Detained by Border Patrol in Maine (long) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; www.opencarry.com reports that open carry is not allowed in a vehicle...I can't find it anywhere in the law though.. anyone? ETA: just had a thought, ...

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Thread: Detained by Border Patrol in Maine (long)

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array raysheen's Avatar
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    www.opencarry.com reports that open carry is not allowed in a vehicle...I can't find it anywhere in the law though.. anyone?

    ETA: just had a thought, maybe it's in the hunting laws? do you know exactly what he was charged with?

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    "There is no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
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    Lol +1
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

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  4. #18
    Member Array Bline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysheen View Post
    www.opencarry.com reports that open carry is not allowed in a vehicle...I can't find it anywhere in the law though.. anyone?

    ETA: just had a thought, maybe it's in the hunting laws? do you know exactly what he was charged with?
    Not sure what the specific charge was. I know it's a class D. Not sure waht that is either. I agree with the sentiment that carrying an unloaded weapon in a holster in a car is pointless and pretty foolish but last time I checked foolishness isn't a class D offense (although it may cause them). If that were the case a lot of politicians would have a criminal record.

    I'll try to get more specifics.
    Last edited by Bline; June 13th, 2007 at 03:47 PM.
    In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.

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  5. #19
    Member Array Protect's Avatar
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    Maybe:
    Title 15 - §292. Persons going armed without reasonable cause

    Whoever goes armed with any dirk, pistol or other offensive and dangerous weapon, without just cause to fear an assault on himself, family or property may, on complaint of any person having cause to fear an injury or breach of the peace, be required to find sureties to keep the peace for a term of less than one year, and, in case of refusal, may be committed as provided in section 285.
    It wasn't loaded so this should not apply:
    Title 12 - §11212. Motor vehicles and motorboats
    ...

    B. A person may not, while in or on a motor vehicle or in or on a trailer or other type of vehicle being hauled by a motor vehicle, have a cocked and armed crossbow or a firearm with a cartridge or shell in the chamber or in an attached magazine, clip or cylinder or a muzzle-loading firearm charged with powder, lead and a primed ignition device or mechanism, except that a person who has a valid Maine permit to carry a concealed weapon may have in or on a motor vehicle or trailer a loaded pistol or revolver covered by that permit. [2005, c. 477, §9 (amd).]
    IANAL, thats what I could find on short notice. Title 12 11108 and 12202 may be worth looking at too.
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer him—by force.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Is it a right? Maybe so. Did it attract attention none of them wanted. Yep. Pushing the limits when you aren't capable and prepared to win is foolish. Either get a law degree, or be able to cite the codes backwards/forwards, and have your attny. on speed-dial.

    Open-carrying an unloaded weapon pretty well defines "brandishing" to me: trying not to violate the law by not being "hot", but having it out for all to gaze upon in awe. Maybe that wasn't his mindset; it will be damn hard to prove.

  7. #21
    Member Array Irontoad's Avatar
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    maybe try the JFPO

  8. #22
    Member Array Bline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Is it a right? Maybe so. Did it attract attention none of them wanted. Yep. Pushing the limits when you aren't capable and prepared to win is foolish.
    Agreed.
    In God we trust, everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.

    Rights are like muscles: If you don't excersise them they slowly disappear.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    wow good luck. If he survives all this and is still able, maybe he should just try to get a ccw. Less hassle for everyone and you are better able to get to places on time.
    -mac
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bline View Post
    Border patrol did the stop and search of the truck. During these stoppings there are Maine state police and county sheriffs working in conjunction with Border Patrol. I believe it was a county Sheriff who issued the summons at the behest of the Border Patrol.
    Sounds like there was ZERO probable cause for the BORDER PATROL to stop them. They did not come across the border, did they?

    I think that all the evidence that would be used to prosecute the charge he faces should be considered tainted because it was the result of an unreasonable search.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshop1000 View Post
    The guy with the shoulder holster deserves a citation.Why do what he did with an unloaded gun? Seems senseless to me.I live in a international border area that sees a lot of Border Patrol and Homeland Security actions. Cut the guys a break, they have a job to do. They nab illegal aliens around here on a regular basis, so I guess they serve a purpose.

    You're right, the Border Patrl have a job to do, and a worthy one.
    What does that have to do with harassing non-criminal guys, beyond the actual scope of the law as written, when it is CLEAR that they are not doing anything criminal, and have nothing to do with a border crossing issue?!

    Will you stop and recognize, please, that it doesn't seem as though these guys were doing anything at all to make them look like criminals? That the Border Patrol guys, if the story is told truthfully, came down on them with attitude from the beginning despite NO EVIDENCE of a crime?

    Why defend them by citing the necessary function of guarding the borders, when these thugs were doing nothing of the kind?

    But YES, I do question the wisdom of the guy carrying an UNLOADED GUN openly in a shoulder holster. Seems pretty dumb, actually, but more to the point, it's senseless. What good is it? Why not just apply for a CCW license, wait for it, and carry then? Look at all the trouble his desire to carry an unloaded gun caused him!!

  12. #26
    Member Array Alien Nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Is it a right? Maybe so. Did it attract attention none of them wanted. Yep. Pushing the limits when you aren't capable and prepared to win is foolish. Either get a law degree, or be able to cite the codes backwards/forwards, and have your attny. on speed-dial.

    Open-carrying an unloaded weapon pretty well defines "brandishing" to me: trying not to violate the law by not being "hot", but having it out for all to gaze upon in awe. Maybe that wasn't his mindset; it will be damn hard to prove.
    So if I understand you correctly you see open carry(even if legal) as branishing a weapon?
    “You come at me with a sword and with a spear. But I come at you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you". 1 Samuel 17, 45-46
    Brian

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankshop1000 View Post
    In Michigan (an open carry state) carrying in a vehicle is covered by other very specific rules.You need to have a pistol stored in a case separate from ammo and not readily accessed by the occupants.A CPL allows the holder to carry a pistol,concealed or open in a vehicle. However a long gun needs to be cased and separate from the ammo and not readily accessed by the occupants. The guy with the shoulder holster deserves a citation.Why do what he did with an unloaded gun? Seems senseless to me.I live in a international border area that sees a lot of Border Patrol and Homeland Security actions. Cut the guys a break, they have a job to do. They nab illegal aliens around here on a regular basis, so I guess they serve a purpose.Also,in most cases a federal police officer (Border Patrol,FBI,ATF etc) can enforce state and local laws with or without the assistance of local law enforcement. It's usually easier to bring in the locals to handle the violations of their local laws.Chuck.
    They were in Maine!

  14. #28
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    Typically state organizations would get involved with this sort of thing. The NRA rarely gets involved in individual cases. If it is class action they will sometimes get involved depending. Mostly they will file amicus curiae once a case reaches the right level in the system.

    Here is a link to the Maine Gun Owners Assoc. They at the least can probably recommend a pro-rights lawyer. I wouldn't expect much else as it appears they haven't updated much on the website in awhile.

    http://www.mgoa.com/
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  15. #29
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    In regards to Border Patrol actions, I have seen them make traffic stops without probable cause.They also hang out at Michigan "seat belt enforcement" areas where several local and state agencies make multiple stops for not wearing seat belts. The reason the BP makes stops w/o PC is that they are not looking for traffic violations or trying to solve local crimes,they are looking for illegal aliens or possible terrorists. They operate under a different set of rules post 911.It's more important now to be legal. If you choose to ride around in a vehicle with an open shoulder holstered weapon you can expect to get some attention from law enforcement.That guy also put the others in the vehicle at risk for some negative attention.Maine is considered a border area to by the way.Chuck.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alien Nation View Post
    So if I understand you correctly you see open carry(even if legal) as branishing a weapon?
    I've stated my feelings on OC a few times- I think its poor decision making, but, to each his own. OCing an unloaded weapon, without a permit is brandishing. What purpose could it serve, besides drawing attention?

    Unless it was a Ruger, in which case it makes a credible club!

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