This is a discussion on Dog Incident within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by semperfi.45 I heard someone say onetime that the OC is to spray the owner after you shot his dog. That is so ...
Had this event happened in a remote area, there would have been 70 lbs of bratwurst for everyone!
Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch
The use of deadly force is to protect your life or that of another from an imminent threat.
A dog in it's owner's yard may startle or scare you, but you would most likely be in a heap of trouble if you chose to shoot it.
Just my opinion............
Michigan has a state wide leash law, and the law also provides that it's legal to kill any dog seen attacking humans or livestock. Anyone bitten can sue without having to prove the animal was vicious.
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Opinions expressed here are based upon Michigan state law ONLY. Other state laws may differ. Know and observe your local laws.
Many years ago, I lived in an apartment, and the building sat perpendicular to the street. The sidewalk led from the front to the parking area in back, and the stairs to go up to my apartment were in the middle. The day that I bought my first gun, my wife and I got home, and the downstairs neighbor's boyfriend was aparment sitting. He tied up his big dog on the porch, and the leash was so long that there was no way that I could get buy him from either direction. Well, the dog strained on the rope, groeling and barking at us. I loaded the gun, and had my wife bang on the window. IWhen the boyfriend came out, I told him that he had 10 seconds to get the dog indoors, before I scattered his brain over the sidewalk. After he got the dog in, I told him that it would be best if he didn't tie the dog up like that. Otherwise, he wouldn't hear me banging on the window, he would just hear a bang. Yeah, probably would not have been the best idea, but I was really pissed.
Forget trying to talk to the dog's owner. In all likelihood you'll soon be informed that the dog is the most wonderful canine that ever walked the face of the earth and he would'nt hurt a flea. If there's a problem its your fault because you are a moron, etc., etc. Walk on the other side of the street. Yeah, I know, you have just as much right to walk down that street as anybody else without being threatened by a dog but it just ain't worth the hassel. Keep life simple.
another posted ". . .the law also provides that it's legal to kill any dog seen attacking humans . . ."
This is also true in Kansas. About ten years ago I lived in a small rural town abd my wife and I began to walk with our Lab-mutt. The town had a number of dogs that ran the streets. I said something to the Police Cheif about the dogs; he said that if the were agressive I had every right under Kansas law to kill them including the discharge of a gun. Check Texas law; I will bet there is a similar law to KS and MI. I would also say do the deed off the owners property/Dog's yard; then therer is no "He's a gentle dog; he would not bite anyone!!" stuff
I say 50/50 oddly enough. Still make sure with a lawyer or the county. Heck, I just found out yesterday that you can't kill those pesky squirrels! I am still waiting for my revenge (long story, don't want to get into it).
Dead dog....dead dog....dead dog (oops). Yes if a dog leaves its place of residence and comes at you to an area that you have a leagal right to be (ie a "public" sidewalk) you have the ability to protect yourself, your family and others from "death or serious bodily injury" (both of which a K9 is capable of doing).
I (also a K9 handler) agree that it does not turn "off" a K9's primal drive, but it does #1 blind them, #2 distract them from their primary objective and #3 looks good for you in attempting to use a less form of force. In all my occasions of spraying K9s I have observed that they continue on the course they were on, blindly, thus stepping aside allows them to pass (done that on more than one occasion and even watched a rottie put his head through a door as he continued to run blindly).
I doubt that you'd have legal issues if you had to shoot, I didnt in Texas when a K9 left its property and decided I was to be his snack, but I didnt use a boomstick.
"Respect all ... Fear none!!!
It wouldn't be the first time that a large dogs first attack on a human turned into a fatal one. That has happened on several occasions with pits and rotties in the KC metro area. Not that I am picking on those two breeds. Like I said, any large breed is capable of a fatal attack.
I am a dog lover and am not inclined to shoot a dog unless there wasn't any other option. I don't always have OC spray on me, but when I do, I would most certainly try that first, if the circumstances allowed that. I have made more than one aggressive dog back down just by being more aggressive and snarling back at it and advancing a step or two.
My wife has limited mobility from a line of duty injury/disability and I am not going to let her become a snack so I won't hesitate to shoot a dog either if warranted.
BTW... a dogs bite that causes nerve damage or torn ligaments IS a Crippling Injury and of course justifies your lethal force. All it has to do is get ahold of you to inflict permanent damage.
I will try a less lethal option first if appropriate simply because I love animals, but it's a fine line that won't make me hesitate to shoot if necessary.
(I don't feel it is appropriate to shoot an aggressive dog if it remains on it's property and I am on public thorough fare so I won't kill a dog in it's own property.)
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
A question for those in states whose laws say they can shoot attacking dogs: Do those same laws provide protection against civil liability and lawsuits by the owner of the dog?
It'd be a hell of a thing to be in no trouble with the law for the shooting of the dog, but to get hauled into court right or wrong and have to spend thousands to defend against the owner's b.s. lawsuit!
As a general rule, you have to wait until that dog passes the property line or directly into your path. Many dogs are just guarding their territory and have developed an acute awareness of exactly where the property lines are at. I have watched dogs charge at me through the front yard, just to promptly stop and turn to running back and forth at the edge of the sidewalk. All they are doing is establishing that their territory begins right there, and informing you that you are not welcome to cross the line. I say this as a general rule though. Each situation is individual to the circumstances.
When I was 11, we had a neighbor who had an aggressive old shepherd. I came out to go skateboarding, and the dog had gotten loose. I went and knocked on the door to let them know that they needed to get their dog, and when I made it back to the sidewalk I suddenly heard growling and turned to see the dog charging me on the public sidewalk. I grabbed my trusty skateboard firmly in both hands, and when the dog got within range I cracked it across the skull with my skateboard right in front of the owners. I gave no apologies, but some very sharp words that I am sure surprised the neighbors.
I never had a problem with that dog after that.
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
If the dog is on his land, fence, porch, etc, then he can bark and growl and spit all he wants while you walk on by next to his "territory." If that's what is happening, then your only real option is asking the owner about trying to keep the dog closer the home or whatever instead of having him losse out by the wall. If the owner does not want to do that then tough toodles for you. If this is a place where you could safely walk down that street on the opposite side then I do not see why you wouldn't take that route instead of placing yourself in the path of this dog as you take your walk.
If the dog gets onto the sidewalk and comes after you then you do what you feel you need to do to protect yourself. Shooting the dog on it's own property may very well land you in some pretty deep water with the local police. Not an option I would suggest.
Best thing to do.... walk on the other side of the street or change your walking route slightly to keep away from the dog. That way you don't even have to worry about it. If you knew that gun toting gangbangers hung out on that wall, I'd be willing to bet that you would find a different route to use for your strolls.
"You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.
<----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)
He may be entitled to letting the dog roam free on his property, but if there's not something hard and fast that prevents the dog from getting to me and attacking me, all that might stand between his assertion of his rights and me asserting mine (under the 2nd Amendment) might be just how focused his dog is able to be about its property line.
A smart owner would pen or chain the dog; but there are plenty of dumb dog owners out there, as we know.