Where in the world do some people get their information?

This is a discussion on Where in the world do some people get their information? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Famous last words: "Well, I heard...." A little while ago, I'm talking to a kid (I say kid, he's twenty years old, but he's got ...

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Thread: Where in the world do some people get their information?

  1. #1
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    Where in the world do some people get their information?

    Famous last words: "Well, I heard...."

    A little while ago, I'm talking to a kid (I say kid, he's twenty years old, but he's got the attitude of a three-year-old) who asks me if I thought that if I drew my gun I had to also shoot.

    I say, "No."

    He says, "That's not what I heard. I heard that if you draw your gun you HAVE to shoot and not only that you also have to empty your magazine and MAKE SURE the guy is dead."

    I look at him in utter astonishment and ask, "Who in the world told you that? That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. What are you supposed to do if the perp falls down and you still have three rounds left in your magazine?"

    He shrugs and says, "Go over to him and empty those last three rounds into his head."

    I stare at him in astonishment for another five seconds and then say, "God help us all if you ever get your permit to carry because if you ever draw with that kind of information in your head you WILL be going to prison for murder. That is the most erroneous information I've ever heard. You DO NOT HAVE to shoot if you draw. You certainly do NOT have to empty your magazine. And you darned well better not shoot after the threat is considered neutralized or you will get charged with murder."

    "Your wrong!" he says. "I got my information from a friend of mine who's also a police officer."

    To which I respond, "Well, then he needs to be fired or something, because he's wrong. Don't talk to him, talk to a lawyer."

    The kid refused to believe me and as far as I know still lives under the impression that what he was "told" is true.

    I'm praying next January never comes when he'll be old enough to not only buy a gun, but get his permit to carry a concealed weapon. I shudder to think of him carrying a gun with his current attitude and misconceptions.

    At the gun shop I work at I'm constantly amazed by people who come in and start asking questions and spouting out what "someone told them."

    I have honestly sat there, dumbfounded, listening to what some people believe and can do nothing but ask, "WHERE are you getting this information?"

    While opinions continue to be like noses, everyone has one, it's easy for some people to take opinions and accept them as fact. The only "facts" I will accept is if someone pulls out a state law or something similar and provides me with sound proof that what they are saying is correct, especially when it comes to things like carry laws.

    This place is great for its checks and balances. Even if someone forgets to say, "Hey, this is just my opinion," someone else will be sure to repost sound information linked to law or to another authoritative source, while someone else reminds everyone that this is just opinion, not fact.

    However, there are people out there who just swallow whatever they are told, and they happily operate under faulty information.

    So,
    Don't pass along information you haven't checked yourself to prove its validity.

    If you do pass along opinion, try to remember to say it is just opinion (sometimes you will forget, as I have) and encourage the individual to never take just your word for it, but to find their own information (especially when it comes to laws).

    Have a few resources in your pocket, even if it's just a few web addresses, so that you can lead the misled in the right direction.

    I'm not so worried about if someone says, "I heard that Kimber sucks and never to buy a Kimber." Big deal, the guy won't go to prison because he decided he'd never buy a Kimber because someone gave him erroneous information. What I'm worried about is when people try to give out more sensitive advice (such as legal).

    Be careful. Sometimes it's hard to convince these guys that someone else they trusted is really full of it.

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  3. #2
    Member Array FknRa's Avatar
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    The old phrase, "Stupid Hurts" comes to mind. Unfortunatly some people don't learn untill it hurts. Do your best to educate but know that not everyone wants to hear what you have to say.

    insert catchy phrase here; ie: lead a horse to water
    teaching pig to sing
    To those that paid for my freedom,
    I WILL NEVER FORGET.

    As with all statements I've made and All that I will make, please check your local laws to verify accuracy. (and if i'm wrong let me know as I like to be right in the future) After all I'm just some goofball posting on an internet forum.

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    Member Array Protect's Avatar
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    It comes from stupid people.

    There is an Attorney that teaches CCW classes here who says, "If you draw your gun, someone must die."

    He makes you write it down.

    I'm not kidding.
    "When a man attempts to deal with me by force, I answer him—by force.
    "... No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own." -John Galt, Atlas Shrugged

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protect View Post
    It comes from stupid people.

    There is an Attorney that teaches CCW classes here who says, "If you draw your gun, someone must die."

    He makes you write it down.

    I'm not kidding.
    WOW! Remind me not to call him to come and defend me.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array TonyW's Avatar
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    Very good points made, Lima. You seem to be on the front lines when it comes to a lot of this stuff.

    As I understand it, research proves that most defensive uses of a handgun do not actually involve the gun being fired. Someone just resurected a thread on this as I recall, but drawing means you should be WILLING and READY to fire your weapon. Not that you must absolutely fire.

    There is a lot of bogus information out there. Fortunately in today's age it is even easier with things like the internet to find out the real deal. Pretty much every state has a website with the information you need for where you live.
    <a target="_top" href="http://www.cybernations.net/default.asp?Referrer=TonyW"><img src="http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd188/18932471/imgad2-1.png" border="0"></a>

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    Good advice Lima and I wish I would remember to always state what is my opinion. I try to make aware what is my musing what I seem to remember but not a source and then the facts.

    George (Dr. CMG) is a wealth of knowledge of my state carry laws (probably has to do with him being a Ph.D and a librarian), and lmost always points me to sections of the law pertaining to what I'm asking. I hope I can be as factual as I can and not lead anyone else astray.

    It is hard to convince someone who will not listen to reason especially when the can not even hear how moronic their statement sounds. Like
    Go over to him and empty those last three rounds into his head
    .

    I work with a lady who was convinced that Teddy Roosevelt led the Rough Riders ashore at Normandy. She only believed the truth after a day of me showing her the White Houses offical web-site. It would have been much harder if she didn't know when WWII took place.

    I commend you on pointing out how we should post, give advice and act.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Morons believe, adhere to, espouse, and will do moronic things.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyW View Post
    There is a lot of bogus information out there. Fortunately in today's age it is even easier with things like the internet to find out the real deal. Pretty much every state has a website with the information you need for where you live.
    Exactly. I just got done rereading PA state law regarding self-defense and I still quiver to think of this kid believing he'd be justified in "finishing off" a threat that was considered neutralized.

    Granted, even if it is in the law, it's the job of the lawyers to help interpret that law and even if you do what you can to be within the law you can still find yourself on a battle-field of other people who interpret things just a little bit differently than you do. We do the best we can, but there's always that gray area yet to be interpreted.

    The least that can be asked is that we at least KNOW the law and interpret it to the best of our own ability first.

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    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    A little while ago, I'm talking to a kid (I say kid, he's twenty years old, but he's got the attitude of a three-year-old) who asks me if I thought that if I drew my gun I had to also shoot.

    I say, "No."

    He says, "That's not what I heard. I heard that if you draw your gun you HAVE to shoot and not only that you also have to empty your magazine and MAKE SURE the guy is dead."
    The thing is, if you look real hard, you can see the barest trace of what once may have been good advice in there that has been distorted almost beyond recognition. The "if you draw your gun you have to shoot" statement was probably originally a admonition not to draw your gun unless you really need it. Emptying your magazine probably started out as, "keep shooting as long as the BG is a threat, even if you have to fire every round in the gun". My guess is what was originally the correct advice has been distorted as it passed from person to person like a game of telephone.

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    Hollywood also bears some blame too - but then in fact it is less Hollywood and more the gullibility of so many folks.

    Anyone even considering carry needs to be 101&#37; up to speed on what is and what is not acceptable, both in law as well as in fact what we could (should) regard as common sense.

    It is scary to have people out there with such notions.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Member Array ShadeAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    The thing is, if you look real hard, you can see the barest trace of what once may have been good advice in there that has been distorted almost beyond recognition. The "if you draw your gun you have to shoot" statement was probably originally a admonition not to draw your gun unless you really need it. Emptying your magazine probably started out as, "keep shooting as long as the BG is a threat, even if you have to fire every round in the gun". My guess is what was originally the correct advice has been distorted as it passed from person to person like a game of telephone.
    +1 there. Part of it could also be the "telephone effect". Remember that game in grade school where the teacher would whisper something in one kids ear and then it would go around the room and come out completely different?

    So if that good advice has been filtered through 3 or 4 "experts" it could come out like that.
    "You can't shake the devils hand and say you were only kidding"

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    Ex Member Array Pete's Avatar
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    Where in the world do some people get their information?
    It's my guess he wasn't informed but just opinionated. He thought he was impressing you. I hope you took the opportunity to educate him and help prevent him from spreading the lie further, it's very easy to ridicule people, it is a little harder to help them sometimes.

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    VIP Member Array Spirit51's Avatar
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    I see the same gross misinformation from people in a KC Newspaper disscussion board. Especailly anti gun people. I have told my husband about a few until he has said, "Don't tell me anymore about them. They are insane."
    If you give them facts...from articles or the NRA they call you a lier.
    I had to admitt defeat and finally decided you just can't educate some people.
    Last edited by Spirit51; June 20th, 2007 at 03:02 PM. Reason: spelling
    A woman must not depend on protection by men. A woman must learn to protect herself.
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    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Famous last words: "Well, I heard...."
    Two things.

    First, to be more accurate it should be famous first words. once you hear those words at the beginning you should immediately put your scepticism hat on and get ready for drivel to come out.

    Second, The society that we live in has for years been shifting away from a "think for yourself" mentality to a "this is all you need to know" one. I have seen so many young people who don't even know how to think for themselves and expect everyone around them to tell them everything they need. This is a very dangerous and stultifying situation because they tend to believe everything they hear, no matter how stupid and non-nonsensical it is, and they will basically be a mental cripple when they get into a situation where they have to deal with it themselves because they don't know how to think.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protect View Post
    It comes from stupid people.

    There is an Attorney that teaches CCW classes here who says, "If you draw your gun, someone must die."

    He makes you write it down.

    I'm not kidding.
    That opens him up to some juicy wrongfull death suits...

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