Hurt or harm the cause of CC on campus?

Hurt or harm the cause of CC on campus?

This is a discussion on Hurt or harm the cause of CC on campus? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; News like this... http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...5898&rfi=6 Gun, pot charges may lead to life in jail BY ERIN L. NISSLEY STAFF WRITER 06/23/2007 A tip about a gun ...

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Thread: Hurt or harm the cause of CC on campus?

  1. #1
    Member Array xercise2nd's Avatar
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    Hurt or harm the cause of CC on campus?

    News like this...

    http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...5898&rfi=6

    Gun, pot charges may lead to life in jail
    BY ERIN L. NISSLEY
    STAFF WRITER 06/23/2007

    A tip about a gun in a dorm room led to a plea Friday that has a 19-year-old looking at five years to life in prison.

    Ryan Hardy’s freshman year at Lackawanna College came to a halt when he was arrested on drug and gun charges last year. The Philadelphia resident is being held in Lackawanna County Prison, and also faces gun charges in Philadelphia.

    The man was in federal court Friday with his attorney, Ernie Preate Jr., to plead guilty to carrying a gun while dealing marijuana, a charge that carries a mandatory minimum sentence of five years in prison.

    Although the maximum sentence is life in prison, federal sentencing guidelines make it unlikely that anyone without an extensive criminal history would ever receive such a harsh sentence.

    Mr. Hardy’s arrest came after Lackawanna College security officers received information about a handgun in a dorm room. They investigated, calling Scranton police when they saw marijuana in the room, Assistant U.S. Attorney John Gurganus Jr. said in court.

    After obtaining a search warrant, police found marijuana and a lock box containing a 9mm Beretta with the serial number partially filed off, Mr. Gurganus said.

    Also found in the room were small baggies that are commonly used to package marijuana.

    In an interview with police, Mr. Hardy admitted to selling marijuana, saying he got the drugs from “someone else to make money” and was given the gun to protect the drugs and any money he received from selling them, Mr. Gurganus said.

    “Are those things true?” U.S. District Judge A. Richard Caputo asked Mr. Hardy.

    The teen nodded before saying, “Yes, sir.”

    Mr. Preate said his client has no prior arrest record and was a star athlete in high school.

    “He had a great future,” Mr. Preate said Friday. “It’s a tragedy, getting involved with the wrong people.”

    Federal probation officers will do a pre-sentence investigation, which will help Judge Caputo determine the proper sentence for Mr. Hardy.

    Federal sentencing guidelines make it likely that Mr. Hardy’s sentence will be closer to the five-year mandatory minimum.

    His sentencing is scheduled for Sept. 26.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    (choose the best answer)

    1. Hurts the cause of CCW on campus!

    2. Helps the cause of CCW on campus!

    3. Neither hurts the cause of CCW on campus.

    (Smilies nor the lack there-of indicate the correct answer.)
    Last edited by QKShooter; June 23rd, 2007 at 10:23 AM. Reason: add actual story to thread.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
    (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This has zero to do with CCW (?).

    It's just another criminal doing criminal activity and having a criminals gun (serial numbers filed away!) along with criminal product & paraphanalia toward intent to engage in criminal activity on a campus.

    He got busted and thats that.
    Law abiding citizens carrying concealed on campus are completely the opposite of this story.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This has zero to do with CCW (?).

    It's just another criminal doing criminal activity and having a criminals gun (serial numbers filed away!) along with criminal product & paraphanalia toward intent to engage in criminal activity on a campus.

    He got busted and thats that.
    Law abiding citizens carrying concealed on campus are completely the opposite of this story.

    - Janq
    I think what he meant to imply, is does this strengthen the deabte for allowed CC on campuses as there are clearly armed drug dealers there. Or doe this hurt "our casue" because some underage drug dealing piece of scum had a gun?

  4. #4
    Member Array xercise2nd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    This has zero to duty with CCW (?).

    It's just another criminal doing criminal activity and having a criminals gun (serial numbers filed away!) along with criminal product & paraphanalia toward intent to engage in criminal activity on a campus.

    He got busted and thats that.
    Law abiding citizens carrying concealed on campus are completely the opposite of this story.

    - Janq
    Janq, you're right in that the guy is a criminal and fortunately he will get his just deserts.

    What I am asking forum folks to consider is whether or not there will be a spill-over impact in the area of debate over legal concealed carry on campus. I know he was carrying illegally. But I am looking beyond the incident.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." --- John Adams
    (1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
    Source: Oct. 11, 1798; Address to the military

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xercise2nd View Post
    ... whether or not there will be a spill-over impact in the area of debate over legal concealed carry on campus.
    The logic will be, more or less: a gun was there; guns are bad; there should be fewer guns; so, we should do something about that, to reduce the number of guns in our midst. If only we could keep guns off campus, things would naturally, logically, be safer for everyone. Uh-huh.

    So, will there be an impact? Of course there will be. Someone, somewhere, will whip folks into a frenzy around the idea that something should be done ... anything ... even if that thing ends up impacting upstanding people and (surprisingly) having zero practical impact on reducing the risks from firearms in the hands of criminals who are already ignoring the existing laws.

    But then, as has been mentioned, none of the facts surrounding this particular criminal's actions has anything to do with concealed-carry, other than the negative impacts from such hollow, short-sighted actions that are sure to follow in the wake of this "gun on campus" problem.

    In the case of school campuses, the situation is as simple and clear as anywhere else: (a) criminals will be armed regardless of a silly sign or policy by the school board; (b) a clean-sweep of weapons in the hands of upstanding citizens results in a disarmed population; and (c) advertising the fact a place has forcibly-disarmed people as its only occupants is "ringing the dinner bell" for criminals to do what they'll do. (No prize to those who appreciate the simple fact that 100% of mass shootings as schools have happened at schools where there were policies of no weapons. But, there it is, the stupidity if the ill-considered logic in spades, for all to see.)

    Trouble is, more often than not whatever gets pushed as a "solution" ends up skipping the intended "targets" (criminals) and landing squarely on the heads of law-abiding, upstanding citizens. The net result is that average citizens end up less safe, less able to protect themselves, and being a juicier target for criminals by virtue of their now-softer status.

    That is criminal, pure and simple. I think it should be treated as such. People who leverage their power or position to inflict practical damage on citizens in complete contravention to the purported goals of a "solution" need to be held accountable in simple, practical terms. The damage they cause ends up with lives being lost, costs being incurred, increased fear and loss of security. All because of knee-jerk backlash that occurs in such situations merely because a dangerous gun was involved. Folks can easily get their arms around a "cause" when it's crammed down their throats with sugar and honey ... despite having zero positive impact in a practical sense.
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  6. #6
    Member Array Murexway's Avatar
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    No Impact At All

    The only relevance of this incident to CCW is evidence that criminals pay no attention to laws.

    But that's the definition of a criminal (and hardly news), so it's unlikely to have much impact in the debate over CCW on campus.

    The left-wingers in control of college campuses these days are aware of the facts - they just choose to ignore anything that doesn't fit with their personal philosophy.

  7. #7
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    ccw9mm is dead on with this one.
    It proves that criminals ignore the law.(Duh!)
    But the antis will only see that there was a gun. And we all know the only way to stop criminals from having guns is to take them away from the law abiding citizens!
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    Gun grabbers abound in a college environment. We should only be so lucky to live in their perfect world. NOT!!!
    VT felt the full effect of such inane policy adopted by their foolishly naive administration. A tragedy that could have been prevented if not for idealist's wearing blinders in a less than perfect world.
    There are really only two sides to the gun debates and not much for middle ground. Our best chance for peaceful lives is to convince as many people as possible the importance of a society able to defend itself from BG's.
    Rant over, sorry I know it's the choir I'm preaching to.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Array DirtDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmy40 View Post
    ccw9mm is dead on with this one.
    It proves that criminals ignore the law.(Duh!)
    But the antis will only see that there was a gun. And we all know the only way to stop criminals from having guns is to take them away from the law abiding citizens!
    The anti's will use whatever it takes to "rid" the world of the handgun scourge. The facts only get in the way of a good story.
    Why is it that you always find things at the last place you looked?
    Because when you find something-you stop looking-Mooch

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The logic will be, more or less: a gun was there; guns are bad; there should be fewer guns; so, we should do something about that, to reduce the number of guns in our midst. If only we could keep guns off campus, things would naturally, logically, be safer for everyone. Uh-huh.

    So, will there be an impact? Of course there will be...

    I agree with ccw9mm!

    We all KNOW this is comparing apples to oranges and it really should have no effect on the debate! WE KNOW THAT!

    Illegal gun possessed by a criminal is not in any way shape or form comparable to a lawful ccw permit holder with a defensive firearm. And as we all also know, an incident like described in the post, should go towards bolstering OUR position. But it in all reality, it usually doesn't. (gun=bad, therefore have less guns in the minds of the anti's who usually are in control of our institutions of higher learning)

    Unfortunately, WE do not get to make those decisions of policy at schools, campuses, and universities.

    The reality is that I believe ccw9mm is correct and it will only serve to slow or harm our cause in getting ccw allowed on campus.

    Whether it tips things over the top or not is yet to be determined, but it definitely isn't going to help.

    JMHO based on the lunatic reality I have witnessed over the years!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    This is another case of some idiot not haveing any common sense. This kid sure found a great way to screw up his college education plus the rest of his life due to felony charges. I don't see where this has any thing to do with ccw. This is a case of someone who has no reguard for the law. What a waist due to this kid makeing a poor choice. If he is lucky the judge will give him a break so he can mend his ways.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dls56 View Post
    Gun grabbers abound in a college environment. We should only be so lucky to live in their perfect world. NOT!!!
    VT felt the full effect of such inane policy adopted by their foolishly naive administration. A tragedy that could have been prevented if not for idealist's wearing blinders in a less than perfect world.
    There are really only two sides to the gun debates and not much for middle ground. Our best chance for peaceful lives is to convince as many people as possible the importance of a society able to defend itself from BG's.
    Rant over, sorry I know it's the choir I'm preaching to.


    I will be writing to the Collegiate Times about ccw on campus as soon as next semester starts. It probably wont do anything but maybe it will open the discussion on campus. I just wanna make sure my timing is okay.
    (<--VT student)

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Juggernaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xercise2nd View Post
    Janq, you're right in that the guy is a criminal and fortunately he will get his just deserts.

    What I am asking forum folks to consider is whether or not there will be a spill-over impact in the area of debate over legal concealed carry on campus. I know he was carrying illegally. But I am looking beyond the incident.
    If anything I would think it could be used to bolster the argument that if there are armed criminals on campus then the the only disarmed people are the law-abiding citizens who don't carry.

    That said, I also agree with Janq. He was a criminal and had an illegal gun for illegal acts.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.
    -Horace

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I think this would actually be an opportunity to do some "spin" for our side. I am assuming that since campus security was investigating a complaint of a handgun in a dorm room that there is either a policy or law against it. This shows just how effective that policy or law is. The only person ( that we are aware of ) on that campus with a handgun was an underage drug dealer! The entire student body was at the mercy of this heinous criminal without even knowing it! If he blew a gasket and decided to go on a rampage, who there would have the tools to stop him? Point out how many laws and policies he was in violation of. Ask people straight out how effective they believe those policies are now. Ask them why they believe any other law or campus rule would be obeyed by people like this when they have shown their utter contempt for all of the existing ones.
    I say go on the offensive!

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