Reponsibilities of a CHP holder.... - Page 2

Reponsibilities of a CHP holder....

This is a discussion on Reponsibilities of a CHP holder.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Speaking of the "me and Mine only" camp, I seem to be able to spend a lot of time thinking "rationally, and calmly" in my ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37
  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,164
    Speaking of the "me and Mine only" camp, I seem to be able to spend a lot of time thinking "rationally, and calmly" in my chair and calculate that not very often the benefit of getting involved is worth the risk. But then I read the news and become angry and sorrowed that bad things were allowed to happen. I find myself thinking about how I might've stopped whatever if I were there. Then I remind myself that I already decided that getting involved in other peoples issues isn't worth it. Then I Ask myself if I'm being logical or cowardly. Smart for being a good witness and going home or a fool for helping only the cops to fill out their report about the girl that was just murdered. Logic tells me one thing, but I can't even watch the news without wanting to jump through the screen protect those who cannot protect themselves. I guess I'll know what I'm gonna do when I get there. Hopefully I'll be aware and rational enough to see as much of the whole picture as I can, and remember that the BG might not be alone. Hopefully I'll call it right, but I can only promise to do my best.
    Spend few minutes learning about my journey from Zero to Athlete in this mini documentary!
    Then check out my blog! www.BodyByMcDonalds.com

    Cupcake - 100 pound loser, adventurer, Ironman Triathlete.


  2. #17
    Member Array sethmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Richmond VA
    Posts
    37
    I'm not a LEO, nor do I harbor any pre-conceptions of being a hero. Quite the contrary...

    However, I sat at lunch today with my wife and baby and thought... what if someone walked in and opened fire... what if we were safe but someone else wasn't. The me and mine arguement is compelling in many, if not most situations... but it ain't very nice.

  3. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,921
    What is the thought process regarding acting on someone else's behalf?
    There are basically only TWO thought processes and they only result in two different actions.

    One...do NOTHING.
    For whatever reason,logic or excuse,that you can articulate,justify or convince yourself of.

    Two.ACT
    Intervene. Attempt to help your fellow man.
    Yes, it is risky. You can be killed,sued or maimed either physically or mentally.

    Most people will choose not to act. Instead, they stand idly by and refuse to be part of the equation.

    Then there are the few percent of people that will act and can make a difference.

    It is a decision that only YOU can make, and much thought must be given beforehand.
    If you choose not to intervene, so be it.
    It you choose to act, it must be done with speed,accuracy and overwhelming force.

    Your only goal is to win.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  4. #19
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,783
    My Rules...Yours May Vary...

    #1. Protect me and mine...
    #2. Be a good witness...
    #3. Apologize, Hide, Run if possible...
    #4. If forced to act..be violent, quick, and decisive!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array kavity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    614
    Quote Originally Posted by Protect View Post
    I used to to be of the "Me and Mine camp."

    There are problems of not knowing the situation:
    I'm sure everyone has heard an anecdote about a CCW carrier causing a killer/felon/BG to getaway from an undercover officer.

    Or becoming a victim yourself:
    Or the guy that got stabbed trying to stop a fight in a parking lot.

    Both are great cases for keeping to yourself.

    Then, I remember what happened to my wife before we met, and I read a story like Lima's and wonder if I could live with myself for NOT doing anything.

    Every person is different, every situation is different, every response is different.

    holy :( :( :(

    After reading Lima's post I don't think I will ever be of the "me and mine" camp. (Unless i had to choose between me and mine and a stranger). I don't think I would ever sit idly by and let someone do that to a woman.

  6. #21
    Member Array phaed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fort Huachuca, AZ
    Posts
    453
    i can tell you that laws and policy don't enter your mind when it happens. everything becomes simplified in fear. it's nice to think about, but all the philosophical discussion and training in the world won't prepare you for that last instant of pulling the trigger.

  7. #22
    Ron
    Ron is offline
    Distinguished Member Array Ron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    West Linn, Oregon
    Posts
    1,628
    First, and very important, I am not a LEO. I have elected to carry a gun to protect myself and my loved ones, to whom I owe the highest priority. I would not intervene unless I or my family were at immediate risk of being killed or seriously injured, or it was clear to me beyond question, in that split second that I would have to make a decision, that I could, in fact, save the life of an innocent person.

    The consequences of being wrong and winding up in prison or being financially ruined in a civil suit for damages, is just too great. IMO I would be breaching the duty I owe to my family.

    Ron
    "It does not do to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."

    J. R. R. Tolkien

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    508
    I still would like to see a discussion regarding the merits (or lack of) going to the aid of someone who will not prepare to take care of him or herself.

    The tools and training are readily available. Yet so very few take advantage of them and so very many refuse to believe anything ill can happen to them and are shocked when it does.

    Why should I risk it all for those who are too lazy, too self absorbed, or too self deluded to protect themselves?

    This is a very serious question that I think does not get asked often enough.

  9. #24
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    I still would like to see a discussion regarding the merits (or lack of) going to the aid of someone who will not prepare to take care of him or herself.

    The tools and training are readily available. Yet so very few take advantage of them and so very many refuse to believe anything ill can happen to them and are shocked when it does.

    Why should I risk it all for those who are too lazy, too self absorbed, or too self deluded to protect themselves?

    This is a very serious question that I think does not get asked often enough.
    Sheepdogs protect sheep.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array Smith&Wessonfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Sheepdogs protect sheep.
    Not that simple for me.

  11. #26
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Smith&Wessonfan View Post
    Not that simple for me.
    Nor for me, either. But I think that is the proper mindset. We train for potential siuations. We all go though a series of 'what ifs' We are among the most prepared in society to defend ourselves and our families against evil. Not being LEOs, we are not obligated to protect the sheep, but I would have a big problem sleeping if I did not take action IF IT WAS APPROPRIATE.

  12. #27
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    It's called "the moment of truth" for a reason and it applies to killing or just getting involved if you don't have to.

    I would like to think most people who choose to carry a gun will do the right thing for the situation they are in based on the circumstances at hand and careful deliberation whatever they decide.

    I judge NO One in that regard and Don't put my standards against anyone elses.

    These are facts I know and have to weigh:

    My family would be hard pressed to live life without me, whether I am dead or in prison. (Not that "I" feel I am that important personally, but to others, I am.)

    I wouldn't be doing my family any service if we were to be financially ruined defending my actions from lawsuits brought forth by someone I thought I was helping and then sued me or by defending my actions in court in an attempt to keep my butt outta jail. (and then when the money is all gone, I still may go to prison)

    It's not just my pocket change we are talking about here. I'm talking about losing my house, my savings, cashing in life insurance policies (designed to protect my families future if I die), my cars and the food on the table to feed my family.

    Now when I was young and single, I was a lot more reckless with my life and my money. I'm not young and single anymore.

    I'm also a paramedic... I help people for a living. I'm also a tactical medic on a swat team so I have a fair amount of tactical training and expertise in violent situations. Our team medics are not held in reserve. We are armed, an intrical component of the entry team and part of the stack going in. We subdue and provide security to team members as well.

    I would like to think that in most situations, if something is playing out before my eyes while off duty and when among the general public, I am going to respond in some fashion, to some extent even up to and including physical intervention.

    But, I can say without a doubt. It will always be a case by case basis, played out as it presents itself and based on careful but trained evaluation of the circumstances.

    I've seen a lot of case files, case law, surveillence videos, court documents and a fair amount of training all in my bag of tricks to form my decisions with.

    However, I am always cognizant of my Number One priority as a civilian and that is, at the end of the day... I have a family and family responsibilities and I am obligated to do the best I can to come home and fullfill my family responsibilities.

    That's a commitment I made to my wife, who is a disabled paramedic, injured in the line of duty, from an assault, btw, and her pension is not something I would want to leave her with to have to live on, because I'm dead and can no longer provide, or because I lost our family life savings defending myself in court and crapped out.

    Some of the macho types may call that cowardice... I can live with that. To each their own. I know plenty who know me who would think otherwise. Theirs are the opinions I worry about.

    Just my 2 cents.

    YMMV
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  13. #28
    1943 - 2009
    Array Captain Crunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    10,372
    Seth,

    All the advice in this thread so far is right on point. I can add but one thing. Go to your local newstand or supermarket and buy the August 07 issue of G&A Handguns Magazine. Read the article titled Heroic Consequences. Questions to ask yourself before going in defense of others, by David Kenik.

    Read this. Study this. Keep it for future reference. It might be the best $3.99 investment you'll ever make.


    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


    Terry

  14. #29
    Member Array Detroittwister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Taylor, MI
    Posts
    287
    Michigan and some other states have recently passed a No Duty to Retreat law which allows a person the right to use deadly force to defend himself, herself or another person.

    " A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

    With this said, in the event of defending yourself or someone else, I do not think a person should have to run through their head all the legal ramifications that would be involved, a person does not have that kind of time. You need to know what you would do before you strap on your gun. Think clearly and do what is right and necessary. Also Michigan and other states have passed laws which gives immunity from criminal and civil prosecution. You must know your states laws.
    ** NRA Life Member***

    Colt Defender .45
    Kel-Tec .380


    Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day.

  15. #30
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,917
    Florida has Castle Doctrine law too... I think they were the first state to pass it... I just got an email from the Palm Beach County public defenders office today who said prosecutors are challenging that law with a greater amount of frequency.

    See post here for copy of email I received today:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=27962

    Just because you have castle doctrine doesn't mean you won't be charged with murder or sued. Norman Borden just finished his trial Monday. Thank god, he got acquitted. But he very well could have been convicted. And it was a Clear Cut case of self defense!

    BTW... if I am the target of a threat, I am going to react, based on training.... I can see very few situations if I was an uninvolved bystander where I would have to respond instantly without weighing any of the circumstances before hand.

    Maybe you know of a lot, I don't know of many where you don't have the time to plan a hasty course of action and apply tactics. (I'm refering to times when you are a bystander and not involved first person)
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Wanted - Horizontal Mag Holder and Flashlight Holder
    By Beachbumcook in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 25th, 2010, 01:33 PM
  2. Robber of a Burger King shot dead by CCW holder. CCW holder shot also.
    By RSViper in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: March 25th, 2009, 10:16 PM
  3. Mag holder with SF 6P?
    By PhillyGlock23 in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 1st, 2008, 12:41 PM
  4. CCW Holder age
    By kenrwi in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 62
    Last Post: December 10th, 2006, 02:59 PM

Search tags for this page

chp holder

,
chp holder va
,
chp holders
,
ohio ccw store being robbed can you intervene
,
what is a chp holder
,
what is a chp holders
Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors